Choosing Between Epeiros and Makedonia

**Theseus1234** · August 19, 2012, 05:37 AM

I was looking over the unit rosters and AoR for both Epeiros and Makedonia and was trying to discern the differences between them. The only native units that are different are the slightly stronger Epirote elite phalanx compared to the Argyaspides and the weaker but faster Molossan Agema compared to the stronger but slower Hetairoir. On the regional level Makedonia seems to have a universally larger AoR and can recruit Thrakian units while Epeiros can recruits Illyrians. What are the advantages of Illyrians over Thrakians? Thrakians seem to be better in most ways.

So...what does Epeiros have that Makedonia doesn't already have? Well there's elephants and Pyrrhos...but that's about it.

**~~The Kybrothilian~~** · August 19, 2012, 06:03 AM

Comparing the Illyrian and Thracian units, you can see that the Illyrian units are mainly lightweight, but very versatile: The Illyrian light cavalry for example have AP secondary weapons, making them good against heavy cavalry. The Thracian units are more heavier, and include many assault heavy infantry units like Rhomphaiaphoroi and Triballi infantry. Also don't forget that Epeiros has more emphasis to Italic units, which includes Lucanian light infantry and Tarantine cavalry.

There are also differences in campaign play. Epeiros concentrates to west while Makedonia to east. Opponents may also wary, Makedonia doesn't have to necessarily fight Carthage, while Epeiors doesn't have to necessarily fight the Ptolemaic empire.

**James the Red** · August 19, 2012, 11:50 AM

I set my own goals when playing EB, rather than following the standard win conditions. When playing as Epeiros, I try to take as much territory as I can with Pyrrhos in a sort of Blitz campaign, I go for Hellas first, and then Italy, Sicily, Masillia and Corsica. Then I try to go for an Anatolia conquest.

As for Makedonia, I turtle rather than blitz, a different play style, when factions are similar, you make them different by playing them differently and set different goals. It enhances the game in my opinion. With Macedon I don't invade Italy or Sicily and instead focus on going east after Epiros and KH are defeated.

**Revan The Great** · August 19, 2012, 07:55 PM

I enjoy both, though your troops aren't all that different really. The two campaigns definitely play differently, but when I play as Epirus I feel like its hard to continue after Pyrrhus' death. Epirus was unimportant both before and after his death, so to me a Macedonian campaign has more longevity.

**Theseus1234** · August 20, 2012, 02:07 AM

Yeah it does seem like Pyrrhos is the center of the Epeiros campaign and he's already middle aged.

Also quick question: Why do Makedonians have a trait specifically for how much they drink? Seems a bit odd.

Another question: Is there a place I can look up the specific ethnic traits and their tendencies?

**hamjam** · August 20, 2012, 03:15 PM

Another major difference is that Epirus can recruit Elephants out of Ambrakia, and I don't Macedonia can at all. On the other hand, Macedon has a MUCH larger area where they can install effective government building.

Overall I like playing as Epirus in the early part of the game better because of Pyrrhus, their units (especially Elephants) and the ethnicities available to them (including Syracusan and Tarentine). However, I like Macedon better for mid to late game because of the larger amount of buildings that can be built.

But since I personally have a beef with the Antigonid dynasty for killing Roxane and Alexander's son (the last remaining hope for a stable and ascendant Greek dominated Hellenistic world) I never play as them.

Death to the betrayers of the divine Megas Alexandros!

**Stath's** · August 20, 2012, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by hamjam

Another major difference is that Epirus can recruit Elephants out of Ambrakia, and I don't Macedonia can at all. On the other hand, Macedon has a MUCH larger area where they can install effective government building.

Overall I like playing as Epirus in the early part of the game better because of Pyrrhus, their units (especially Elephants) and the ethnicities available to them (including Syracusan and Tarentine). However, I like Macedon better for mid to late game because of the larger amount of buildings that can be built.

But since I personally have a beef with the Antigonid dynasty for killing Roxane and Alexander's son (the last remaining hope for a stable and ascendant Greek dominated Hellenistic world) I never play as them.

Death to the betrayers of the divine Megas Alexandros!

Yes, because if they were alive Ptolemy would hand over Egypt just for the shake of stability

Since there were so many riches in the Hellenistic world after Alexander, you can't have expected anything better from mortals

**hamjam** · August 20, 2012, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by hannibalbarca13

Yes, because if they were alive Ptolemy would hand over Egypt just for the shake of stability

Since there were so many riches in the Hellenistic world after Alexander, you can't have expected anything better from mortals

I was half joking of course -- though, in truth, this is probably the real reason why I play Epirus, KH or Baktria more than any other factions and why I never play any of the Successor Kingdoms.

Although, there is a real reason why they agreed to put Alexander IV to death, namely, his existence was a real threat to their legitimacy and continued control over the people and the army -- and thus their kingdoms.

**jmlinden7** · August 16, 2013, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Theseus1234

Another question: Is there a place I can look up the specific ethnic traits and their tendencies?

You can go to export_descr_character_traits.txt then check the triggers section to see what kind of things each ethnic trait triggers.

**Cyclops** · August 20, 2012, 07:57 PM

Herald of Omnisiah is onto something. The rosters are similar, but the Epirote regionals are generally lighter (Italic and especially Illyrian vs Thracians). The Illyrians are pretty acceptable early game, and the Italians have a flavour all their own so the diffence isn't unbalanced until 20 years in or so when the MIC's are swollen. Those Thrakian Peltasts and elite Romphaioi are a terror (but don't Epioros get them as AOR?).

I prefer Epiros purely because of the elephants. The uber Maks are uber mid-to-end game but Epiros gets the Agrianes and its own lovely looking elites. IIRC the Epirote BGs are faster and harder than almost any other at least early game.

Frankly trotting out elephants to smash Romans is why I love both Epiros and Carthage. The Makedonian roster is sweet, but elephants early tips the balance for me.

**tomySVK** · August 26, 2012, 06:01 AM

But since I personally have a beef with the Antigonid dynasty for killing Roxane and Alexander's son (the last remaining hope for a stable and ascendant Greek dominated Hellenistic world) I never play as them.

Alexander IV, his mother Roxana and the Alexander’s illegitimate son Heracles were killed by Cassander of the Antipatrid dynasty, not by the Antigonid dynasty.

**Durnaug** · August 26, 2012, 07:42 AM

I usually play as KH and I hate invading Epeiros and its territories. Too many trees. Phalanx pike armies fighting in woods. Tis crazy I say, crazy!!!! I see the trees in my dreams...

**BroskiDerpman** · August 26, 2012, 09:36 AM

I remember I had to fight in an area with lots of trees that I couldn't see my men, I out numbered the ai, had better troops, but because I couldn't see, I lost.

**Durnaug** · August 26, 2012, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by BroskiDerpman

I remember I had to fight in an area with lots of trees that I couldn't see my men, I out numbered the ai, had better troops, but because I couldn't see, I lost.

Don't mention the trees! Ahhhhhhhhh...

Seriously, yes they make for very, very frustrating battles. I think there is a mod that reduces the no. of trees.

**~~The Kybrothilian~~** · August 26, 2012, 10:43 AM

The Mediterranean trees aren't that bad. The northern trees on the other hand...

**BroskiDerpman** · August 26, 2012, 01:08 PM

I now have that "tree mod" It improves things by a lot.

**Hannibal Baca** · August 28, 2012, 05:47 AM

Macedon is better ,it has more stronger units.
Macedon is fear and terror to all phalanx armies (as they invented them ).

**War lord** · August 17, 2013, 08:15 AM

I'd say Epeiros, the only unique-to-Makedonia unit is the Reformed Phalanx, who don't do anything that other Pike units that you don't have to wait for can't do.

**Team Sleep** · August 23, 2013, 08:18 PM

Can you only recruit Epeiros elephants from Epeiros homeland region?

**jmlinden7** · August 28, 2013, 05:40 PM

Yes, you can only recruit Epirote elephants in Ambrakia. You can train the AOR Indian elephants in India.

Epirus has a better starting position, they have access to most Macedonian units, and they have access to Southern Italian units as well as Illyrians (very strong, you get Illyrian club infantry, Illyrian Spearmen which are basically cheaper Thureophoroi, and Illyrian Cavalry which are light charger cavalry with an AP axe to deal with enemy cavalry).