Thoughts about 1v1 animations...

**General Maximus** · August 17, 2012, 04:15 PM

From Empire onwards, we are having these 1 on 1 soldiers fighting. It was a very minor thing in Empire and Napoleon, because the soldiers would rarely fight melee. They would be shot down to splinters before they even reach the lines.

In Shogun II, this was the main and only aspect of fighting, only a single soldier can fight with another. I don't know that much about historical Japanese armies and how they acted in battle, but Samurais sometimes really did seek out an enemy samurai and fight 1v1 between the battle. So I wouldn't say anything.

But here, in Rome II, this aspect will change the strategy. What would be the difference between a barbarian who fights without concerning about his comrade, and Romans, who use teamwork to win the battle? I am a little concerned...

In good old RTW, one soldier could fight more than two of the enemy. Similarly, more than two soldiers could be seen striking down a single helpless dude. This was an advantage, and a strategy. Romans stayed in solid maniples, not break and charge in rage.

Similarly, every Spartan hoplite covered the soldier to his right. This left the men free to attack in better way, but added to the attention because of the need to defend your comrade to your right.

Imagine, Roman legions are marching in lines, until they reach very close to the enemy. Then some Romans break the lines and charge individually, and others follow suite. The whole Roman formation breaks up into 1v1 duels and you know, Romans are not so good in 1v1 duels.

Before some of you begin to rant and whine, please note that these are just thoughts. I am not complaining. And I am not even suggesting using multiple soldiers to attack one, because Jack already said that we will have these 1v1 animations again. I would have liked that though.

Express your thoughts on this matter. And note, 1v1 style fighting completely changes the strategy, thinking and thus the outcome of the battle.

**Zimmy** · August 17, 2012, 04:25 PM

Pretty sure the 1v1 fights will be like Medieval 2, two men fighting to the death until a third comes in and stabs the other one in the back.

**Anna_Gein** · August 17, 2012, 04:27 PM

1v1 animations are the best way to show good looking promotional video.
Don't know for the rest.

But with the need to depict phalanx CA can't make those animations too much predominant.
(As if Macedon was the only nation to fight in formation.)

**Rasic** · August 17, 2012, 04:29 PM

Haven't you heard?

They are the best looking way to show soldiers fighting each other.

**General Maximus** · August 17, 2012, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Rasic

Haven't you heard?

I already read that. I am talking strategy and tactics here, not watching a soldier.

**Chris Death** · August 17, 2012, 04:36 PM

Didn't they use 1v1 animations in rtw 1 aswell?

I mean people do hear something about 1v1 animations and freak out while in the meantime
everybody else who didn't hear it enjoys in the animations without getting the hint
that this is 1v1.

This is the typical - advertisement says: "we got something new" - few users say "we don't like it that way" - noone
gets this has been there for a long time

~S~ CD

**universalmind** · August 17, 2012, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Chris Death

Didn't they use 1v1 animations in rtw 1 aswell?

I mean people do hear something about 1v1 animations and freak out while in the meantime
everybody else who didn't hear it enjoys in the animations without getting the hint
that this is 1v1.

This is the typical - advertisement says: "we got something new" - few users say "we don't like it that way" - noone
gets this has been there for a long time

~S~ CD

No.

**Lockcaps** · August 17, 2012, 04:36 PM

Ok i posted this in another thread but i'll post this image again: http://bildr.no/image/1254165.jpeg

Look at the red circle(The roman is attacking the carthaginian in the back). What i mean is that while it still be 1v1(btw it's not even confirmed that there will ONLY be 1v1) the animations are not going to be of the same "duel style" as Shogun2.

**Greve Af Göteborg** · August 17, 2012, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lockcaps

Ok i posted this in another thread but i'll post this image again: http://bildr.no/image/1254165.jpeg

Look at the red circle(The roman is attacking the carthaginian in the back). What i mean is that while it still be 1v1(btw it's not even confirmed that there will ONLY be 1v1) the animations are not going to be of the same "duel style" as Shogun2.

Post it again, but make the image larger.

**SleepySteve** · August 17, 2012, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by General Maximus

From Empire onwards, we are having these 1 on 1 soldiers fighting. It was a very minor thing in Empire and Napoleon, because the soldiers would rarely fight melee. They would be shot down to splinters before they even reach the lines.

In Shogun II, this was the main and only aspect of fighting, only a single soldier can fight with another. I don't know that much about historical Japanese armies and how they acted in battle, but Samurais sometimes really did seek out an enemy samurai and fight 1v1 between the battle. So I wouldn't say anything.

But here, in Rome II, this aspect will change the strategy. What would be the difference between a barbarian who fights without concerning about his comrade, and Romans, who use teamwork to win the battle? I am a little concerned...

In good old RTW, one soldier could fight more than two of the enemy. Similarly, more than two soldiers could be seen striking down a single helpless dude. This was an advantage, and a strategy. Romans stayed in solid maniples, not break and charge in rage.

Similarly, every Spartan hoplite covered the soldier to his right. This left the men free to attack in better way, but added to the attention because of the need to defend your comrade to your right.

Imagine, Roman legions are marching in lines, until they reach very close to the enemy. Then some Romans break the lines and charge individually, and others follow suite. The whole Roman formation breaks up into 1v1 duels and you know, Romans are not so good in 1v1 duels.

Before some of you begin to rant and whine, please note that these are just thoughts. I am not complaining. And I am not even suggesting using multiple soldiers to attack one, because Jack already said that we will have these 1v1 animations again. I would have liked that though.

Express your thoughts on this matter. And note, 1v1 style fighting completely changes the strategy, thinking and thus the outcome of the battle.

To my knowledge the samurai typically went 1 vs 1 in real life, making it the most realistic way to portray combat in shogun 2. Doesn't change the fact that it often looks retarted as a bunch of the soldiers stand there, or even stand there doing nothing facing the wrong direction lol. imo medieval 2 melee looked and felt the best.

**Drtad** · August 17, 2012, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by General Maximus

Imagine, Roman legions are marching in lines, until they reach very close to the enemy. Then some Romans break the lines and charge individually, and others follow suite. The whole Roman formation breaks up into 1v1 duels and you know, Romans are not so good in 1v1 duels.

Before some of you begin to rant and whine, please note that these are just thoughts. I am not complaining. And I am not even suggesting using multiple soldiers to attack one, because Jack already said that we will have these 1v1 animations again. I would have liked that though.

Jack also said that animations will have improvements in Rome 2, and they acknowledged the importance of formations in the era.

I imagine they're taking formations into account for Romans as well as phalanxes+spearwalls. They've mentioned somewhere that while germanic/gallic swordsmen could swarm around out of formation while engaging in melee, Romans would try to maintain the cohesion of their formation.

**♔The Black Knight♔** · August 17, 2012, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Drtad

Jack also said that animations will have improvements in Rome 2, and they acknowledged the importance of formations in the era.

I imagine they're taking formations into account for Romans as well as phalanxes+spearwalls. They've mentioned somewhere that while germanic/gallic swordsmen could swarm around out of formation while engaging in melee, Romans would try to maintain the cohesion of their formation.

If they can keep the formations then I'm pretty happy. However I like seeing several cheap units take down an elite unit.due to them being over run.
I
Shogun 2 has this taken account for in the math during the battle but you see no phisical ganging up on one man..

Sadly this is how it will be in rome 2 as we have heard, but I would really like to see the numbers take acount in the battle.

**Evalation** · August 17, 2012, 08:25 PM

As long as my legions maintain their disciplne like true Roman soldiers ill have no problem. I dont want to see any Roman soldier break formation to take out a lone enemy soldier unless i tell them too.

I also agree with the op. I spend more time zooming around the battlefield looking for strategic manouvers i can use agianst my enemy. I do think making the fights look more realistic is a good thing to a certain extent as long as it doesnt impeach how i can move my troops.

**Wowwars** · August 17, 2012, 09:02 PM

Hmm imagine if Mods were able to lets say make a certain 1 person unit that'd take out hundreds of soldiers in one fight, oh wait they did. Ello mr. Sauron of TATW

I just noticed that mods like TATW wont be able to work with Rome2's animations. Sauron/Troll v 1 Footman every time would get annoying as hell.

**♔The Black Knight♔** · August 17, 2012, 09:06 PM

I'm pretty sure with the elephants in the game, you'll see a lot of men flying when they charge.

Otherwise we are going to have real problems if an elephant can only take one unit down at a time.

**Lockcaps** · August 18, 2012, 09:11 AM

Ok it seems like it's impossible to get the picture large if you've modified it with paint but i'll just post the official one from flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/total_w...ream/lightbox/

Bottom left of the screen.

**TR00PER7** · August 18, 2012, 10:47 AM

Im sure there probably were instances of 1 on 1 duels that happend but having it as mandatory for all units fighting doesnt make them as epic.

im also not too sure how 1 vs x or x vs x animations would work or flow but i would prefer that than dueling with others waiting their turn.

**Lorddweeb** · August 18, 2012, 02:48 PM

If the system is technically all 1v1 it dosent bother me as long as we don't see ridiculous things like:

The messed up spear units from empire and shogun. NOTHING could be worse than having a phanalx unit in which everybody drops their spears and switches to loose formation sword fighting the moment an enemy gets close. Or the same type of unit where swordsman just sort of casually walk through the wall of spears in order to get into a 1 v 1 fight with their target.

On the other hand, in the totally opposite direction, hopefully some of the more loose unit types will be able to act that way in Rome 2 due to 1v 1 improvements. It always annoyed me in Rome 1 when you'd charge a short roman unit with a long and deep German mass and instead of wrapping around and enveloping the Romans, any German not in combat would just wait his turn.