South African Mine riots- 30 dead

[Grimecraft]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa...353971991.html

Looks like the Police have opened fire, there's reports of 30 dead. Confirmed by the Police themselves.

Rioters walked out of the mine and since then have killed 4 or so police officers and were armed with clubs and machettes they refused to hand over.

Seems to me the police where in the right to open fire. Opinions TWC?

[Simon Cashmere]

Well when a mob charges you with spears, machetes and pangas - good idea to open fire. The cops said also that someone was firing live ammunition at them too.

[Grimecraft]

Well when a mob charges you with spears, machetes and pangas - good idea to open fire. The cops said also that someone was firing live ammunition at them too.

Yup I agree- they clearly were a peaceful bunch, they burned two security officers alive in their car.
Good on the Police for opening fire.

[mongrel]

Well when a mob charges you with spears, machetes and pangas - good idea to open fire. The cops said also that someone was firing live ammunition at them too.

I dare say you'd approve of Amritsar too.



This seems to be Bloody Sunday kind of killing to me.

The South African government seems to be appalled by events and have opened an investigation.

Police officers are not Total War troops simulations, they have have families so the notion that they should wait that one of them is hurt is stupid, especially since the rioters had killed people a few days ago, including police officers.

Surely the ability to retreat and call for reinforcements was not beyond the police, surely. Adequate preparation could have allowed them to deploy non-lethal weapons. But what society would allow people to gather with weapons anyway? Is this mine in Texas?

[SlartyBartfast]

"Good shooting, lads! That will keep those filthy kaffirs in their proper place!"

[mongrel]

"Good shooting, lads! That will keep those filthy kaffirs in their proper place!"

That does seem to be the general thrust of some posters, even if they will protest otherwise. Of course we all know what happened once people took stock of the killing at Amritsar, or indeed those killings familiar to those who remember the Apartheid years.


I recall that the Hillsborough disaster was blamed directly on the character of Liverpool fans. A proper investigation indicated that poor police organization and inadequate safety procedures were to blame. Let's see what a proper investigation will show here.

[Menelik_I]

Surely the ability to retreat and call for reinforcements was not beyond the police, surely. Adequate preparation could have allowed them to deploy non-lethal weapons. But what society would allow people to gather with weapons anyway? Is this mine in Texas?

There was a water cannon and smoke grenades deployed during the riot over many days.

It is the police fault that they were attacked at a spot and instant were the water cannon was useless to them. It is not the attackers who choosen the terms of the engagement.

Brandishing a weapon and using it to kill people is illegal in Texas. According to you people have a right to charge others with with swprds and knives?

[mongrel]

There was a water cannon and smoke grenades deployed during the riot over many days.

It is the police fault that they were attacked at a spot and instant were the water cannon was useless to them. It is not the attackers who choosen the terms of the engagement.

Brandishing a weapon and using it to kill people is illegal in Texas. According to you people have a right to charge others with with swprds and knives?

A water cannon? Barely enough. And what prevented a retreat? It is not as if the pickets were going to be anywhere other than the mine.


Competent policing wouldn't allow 100s of people to gather with weapons in the first place, let alone offer the chance for their use. An investigation is a proper agency to determine whether competency is the issue here, as I suspect.

[Menelik_I]

Competent policing wouldn't allow 100s of people to gather with weapons in the first place, let alone offer the chance for their use.

Compulsive police bashing is a funny paranoia, even when disguised in perfectionism fueledby hindsight.

The rioters killed people, they charged the polic with weapons, the officers had a right to defend themselves.

[Menelik_I]

Rioters walked out of the mine and since then have killed 4 or so police officers and were armed with clubs and machettes they refused to hand over.

The OP Article says that the protesters had killed at 6 people Sunday and Monday, so I say that the Police officers had a reasonable fear for their lives when they were charged.

Not where they killing officers but also fellow protester who where not going with the strike maybe ?

On Sunday, the rage became deadly as a crowd killed two security guards by setting their car ablaze, authorities said.

By Monday, angry mobs killed two other workers and overpowered police, killing two officers, officials said.

Officers opened fire that day, killing three others, police said.

Seems to me the police where in the right to open fire. Opinions TWC?

They were right in my opinion too.

I just hope that the Police take advantage of their newly found balls and arrest the ANC thieves like Jacob Zuma... one can only dream I guess.

[Glista]

Unfortunate for the victims, but its justifiable.

[Grimecraft]

if anything I'd say this came too late. should have been done a while back in order to save lives. the order should have been given after the car was set on fire

[Simon Cashmere]

Have u seen the video, the cops fire a few volleys, and then one of their officers shouts ceasefire, ceasefire! It wasn't like they kept mowing everyone down. The union is portraying it as the cops killing strikers, for being strikers, but that was a baying angry mob that wrongly brought a spear to a gunfight.

[Menelik_I]

The union is portraying it as the cops killing strikers, for being strikers, but that was a baying angry mob that wrongly brought a spear to a gunfight.

Not only the union, the likes of the BBC are giving this case a very bad coverage, maybe because of some butt-hurt from the Thatcher times or something. It is really intended for people to feel sympathetic with the dead without giving any context, it is bad journalism.

Here is a picture of the mob :

Negotiations where done in due form and it seems that some miners accepted to leave, but then this group tried to charge the police.

Some leaders of the miners spoke with the police and largely followed their instructions, breaking up the protest as dusk fell.

It remains unclear what sparked the miners’ fatal charge at police. Mnisi, the police ministry spokesman, claimed the miners shot at police as well, using one of the weapons they stole from officers Monday.

“We had a situation where people who were armed to the teeth, attack and killed others – even police officers,” the spokesman said in a statement. “What should police do in such situations when clearly what they are face with are armed and hardcore criminals who murder police?”

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/grap...riking-miners/

[hellheaven1987]

Imagine we give all of them an AK and organize them into phalanx.

[Menelik_I]

Imagine we give all of them an AK and organize them into phalanx.

This might solve it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Aanker]

This might solve it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Oh no, don't you use JAS-39s on civilians, or else there would be armed popular uprisings in Sweden too!

I'm serious; when SAAB was marketing the aircraft for India, newspapers went into full hysteria mode, claiming it could be used to carry and fire nuclear weapons.

[white-wolf]

Were not there some other means to disperse the group? Like opening fire in front of them, to air, or the legs of attackers? It seems to me unnecessary deaths. I watched the video, and found disturbing. Police continued to fire them when they were all moved down. It was like the execution video from Aleppo.

[Simon Cashmere]

Were not there some other means to disperse the group? Like opening fire in front of them, to air, or the legs of attackers?

Did you see the video of it:

Do you know how hard it is to hit *anything* in a mob rushing towards you? A man size target moving at 100 yards? And you think you can say - yes I will surgically use my firearm to hit the leg of this protestor, and then I will fire a shot, that will knock the panga out of the hand of this protestor.

You don't have time for a committee meeting. There is a huge angry furious armed mob, rushing towards you, probably gambling that their numbers will mean some of them will get shot but they will eventually get to the outnumbered cops and tear them limb from limb. The cops know that. If you are anyone sensible had that mob coming towards you, you would or should be burning clips of ammo into anything that moves.

The modern phenomena is for the uninformed and for people who have never used firearms to have an unrealistic view about how force is used and how the cops are or should be using force. The cops in this case used teargas to start with, and the crowd fired live ammunition at the cops and then charged towards them.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can hear the incoming rounds from the strikers at the start too if you listen carefully. I like the police commander sways out of the way so that his troops behind him don't shoot him in the head, and then says 'ceaefire!' I wonder if he is more worried about getting shot by his own men. I'd guess the charging mob was 30 yards away before they got kneecapped with extreme prejudice.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

the police guy way ahead of everyone else who came running back firing certainly seemed to a brick.