6.4 How to get enough population for a citadel?

**herb0815** · August 16, 2012, 02:23 PM

I just can´t reach the 22.500 pop in my hamburg fortress.

The highest pop I reached is 22.395, with a 7 chev. character + overseer, a stonemason master guild, a abbey (gifted by the stonemason guild), a chapel, a brothel, a bakehouse, crop rotation and monthly tournaments. (I built everything except the galley)

What other things are there to improve the growth rate of the settlement or lower the squalor?

Thx for any tips.

**GiddeeUpp** · August 16, 2012, 02:24 PM

Tough really. you need like 10 chivalry general + all builder traits to get a citadel

**herb0815** · August 16, 2012, 02:39 PM

Wow, that sounds impossible with BGR IV activated.

**GiddeeUpp** · August 16, 2012, 02:42 PM

hehe, or there's the good ol add_population settlement. Some people use that, if you get tired of using it just add the last few little settlers to get to citadel

**Good Source Of Vitamin C** · August 16, 2012, 04:01 PM

outlaw birth control

**Astarte** · August 16, 2012, 04:23 PM

Well, I go easy way. Let AI build citadels for you, they get population bonuses for them

**tudor93** · August 16, 2012, 04:24 PM

Overseer ancillary doesn't boost the population growth. Maybe you were confused by '+1 farming output' ? IIRC that only increases the amount of money you get from farming. Architect is the one you are seeking.
Only 7 chivalry ? If you want a citadel 10 chivalry is mandatory. I got a governor with 10 chivalry, architect ancillary + some anti squalor traits and I still couldn't get a citadel .... It had around 22300 population. I got mad and added 200 population via the console

.

**Strengelicher** · August 16, 2012, 04:29 PM

Tricky. If you have, send some princesses and spies to Italy. Spy on generals from the Italian factions and look for the ancillaries architect and artist. The architect gives -2 squalor which equals +1% growth, the artist -1 squalor (another + 0.5% growth). If you find a general with an architect or - even better - both ancillaries, try to marry him off into your family, using the princesses. The architect and artist are transferable, so be sure to keep them with your "best builder" general and transfer them - once he gets old - to another. Keep them always in your family, as I presume you are playing as a northern faction and as such - if I am not mistaken - you do not get the ancillaries architect and artist by normal means.

**Vissewalde rex de Gerzika** · August 16, 2012, 05:12 PM

They should somehow increase the ability for the player to get citadels, i remember that my castle at the top of scotland(forgot the name) was ungoverned from start and it took about 60 turns for it to have enough population for a upgrade while i could see fortresses all around the map already i was falling behind and the best castles for me were the ones i got from england. Annoying.

**Chazz1225** · August 16, 2012, 08:23 PM

+rep Good Source of Vitamin C xD

**Chazz1225** · August 16, 2012, 09:03 PM

in the end the SS team have made it too

ing hard to get citadel on your own, the fact that you have to wait for the other faction to make them is complete ludicrous

**TsarBG** · August 17, 2012, 01:42 AM

Well, there's this vanilla tactic of converting your castles to towns to encourage fast growth. It might work on this as well, but I think you may have already done that.

**CloacaMaXima** · August 17, 2012, 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by Masterdindin

Well, there's this vanilla tactic of converting your castles to towns to encourage fast growth. It might work on this as well, but I think you may have already done that.

Yes but after your city reaches a certain point you can't convert it to castle anymore, so that's not really an option

Personally I'd use a console command. I wouldn't consider it "cheating" if you make one of your castles a Citadel by this way, since if you try to get 10 chivalry and all the necessary traits and ancillaries and then just wait for the population to reach 22 500, it takes so damn long that many of the units you'd get from Citadel are already historically obsolete. It will simply even the odds against the AI who get bonuses for their growth rates and means that you can field a more diverse roster with units appearing in a prope era IMO.

**ChrisG** · August 17, 2012, 05:21 AM

You can go to the descr_settlement_mechanics in the data folder, find the population requirements for citadel and change the number.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...2#post11708062 .

**Mr Kriegtooth** · August 17, 2012, 02:52 AM

Oh man, I didnt think it was that bad...

My quest to have a citadel in Sweden is never gonna happen!

**Chandr** · August 18, 2012, 08:19 AM

To build the citadel is very important that the general had traits and ancillaries with at least -3-5 squalor. (depends of region)
What I do :
1) Build Mason guild in the city (or build in the castle then convert it to the city) - chance to get
2) build maximum level tavern (pleasure palace)
3) Send my chivalry generals to stay in that city for a while (especially they already have traits with -1,2,3 squalor like Kind Ruler).
And that generals have a chance to get :
1) GoodBuilder trait from the Mason guild (up to -3 squalor)
2) Aesthetic trait from pleasure palace (up to -2 squalor )
3) ExpensiveTastes trait from pleasure palace (up to -2 squalor )
Plus, sometimes the general already has "Kind Ruler" trait (up to -3 squalor)
And in combination with some ancillaries like architect from time to time I have the general which can build the Citadel almost everywhere.

But, it is more easier to capture the Citadel from AI

**Stario** · August 18, 2012, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by herb0815

I just can´t reach the 22.500 pop in my hamburg fortress.

The highest pop I reached is 22.395, with a 7 chev. character + overseer, a stonemason master guild, a abbey (gifted by the stonemason guild), a chapel, a brothel, a bakehouse, crop rotation and monthly tournaments. (I built everything except the galley)

What other things are there to improve the growth rate of the settlement or lower the squalor?

Thx for any tips.

Code:

<!-- castle -->
        <level name="moot_and_bailey" base="1000" upgrade="2000" min="500" max="1500"/>
        <level name="wooden_castle" base="2000" upgrade="4000" min="500" max="5000"/>
        <level name="castle" base="4000" upgrade="9500" min="500" max="10000"/>
        <level name="fortress" base="9500" upgrade="22500" min="500" max="21000"/>
        <level name="citadel" base="22500" min="500" max="30000"/>

The code is from 6.4 "descr_settlement_mechanics.xml"
Do you see anything wrong with it!? (see bold font). The upgrade to fortress is at 22500, yet the max population a fortress can hold is 21000. Change the max population to say 23000 and you will be able to upgrade to citadel.

**TsarBG** · August 18, 2012, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by ján0šík

Code:

<!-- castle -->
        <level name="moot_and_bailey" base="1000" upgrade="2000" min="500" max="1500"/>
        <level name="wooden_castle" base="2000" upgrade="4000" min="500" max="5000"/>
        <level name="castle" base="4000" upgrade="9500" min="500" max="10000"/>
        <level name="fortress" base="9500" upgrade="22500" min="500" max="21000"/>
        <level name="citadel" base="22500" min="500" max="30000"/>

The code is from 6.4 "descr_settlement_mechanics.xml"
Do you see anything wrong with it!? (see bold font). The upgrade to fortress is at 22500, yet the max population a fortress can hold is 21000. Change the max population to say 23000 and you will be able to upgrade to citadel.

^ This, looks like the problem with citadels seem to be due to a coding error after all. Hopefully it will be patched in the next version, and yeah, like janosik said, you could do it yourself.

Or maybe it's on purpose and we're just being trolled

EDIT: It seems it's the same case with the motte and bailey in the code, but I haven't seen it happen, probably due to me capturing wooden castles instead. Maybe that needs fixing as well?

**Stario** · August 18, 2012, 12:29 PM

Its not coding errors. Its just in history not all areas could support a citadel. "Governors influence" will push the population max above stock. So in some regions with the perfect Governor these numbers are viable. This is intended so as to not have Citadels in every region; as this is not very realistic, albeit the 'max' might be a tad too high at 21000; perhaps even try 22000.

Code:

factor name="SPF_GOVERNORS_INFLUENCE">
            <pip_modifier value="0.8"/>
            <pip_min value="0"/>
            <pip_max value="8"/>

The other option is to play around with above code. Try increasing the pip_max value (that should help also).

**RotBaron** · June 27, 2014, 09:24 AM

I've been experiencing the effects of the RR and squalor on pop as the TO. I'm wondering, maybe a better idea would be to raise the cost of a Citadel to say 50k or 100K, that way it could be achieved if you can find a way to save enough and they still wouldn't be all over the map, but realistically maybe you could have one in a reasonably sized faction.

If I wanted to change the cost and lower the population req to say 20,000 ppl, could someone tell me which files I need to edit?

Thanks,
Rot