Any Diests out there?

[Rush Limbaugh]

Well I think of myself as a diest. In doing some reasearch in another thread i ran upon Franklins relgious creed. Since he is claimed to have been a diest and I agree with everything in it I think that quaifys me.

Ben Franklin and his religion



His Creed

I believe in one God, Creator of the universe[1]
He (God) governs it by His providence. [2]
He ought to be worshiped
We best render God service by doing good for his other children
The souls of man is immortal
The soul will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this.
Jesus of Nazareth left to us a system of morals and his religion.
Jesus’ has received various corrupt changes to his teachings (by the Christian church.)
I [Franklin] doubt the divinity of Jesus, but I do not dogmatize upon it or busy myself with it because I never studied it
I expect to know the truth when I die
I do not have any problem with those who do believe in the divinity of Jesus.
I don’t think that the Supreme Being doesn’t take it amiss whether you believe or not.
I have experienced the goodness of God in conducting me prosperously though a long life.
I have not doubt in God’s continuance of this in the next life, without the smallest conceit of meriting it.
I have ever let others enjoy their religious sentiment and do not judge them, no matter how unsupportable or absurd.
I hope to go out of this world in peace with all religious sects.
Even Socrates remembered on his deathbed that he owed a sacrificial cock

So do any of you agree totally with this list? How about most of it? If its most what things do you dissagree on. And do any of you have a different idea of what represents diesm?

[JP226]

i'd consider myself one aswell

[IamthePope]

I might consider that to somewhat match my beleifs minus the blatant heresy and protestant influence. Other than that, the stuff about God being creator of the Universe fits the bill.

[I Have a Clever Name]

Deism accounts for a varying number of beliefs, but generally the most common these days is that a higher being created the universe and then completely withdrew or perished in the process. Its supposedly a logical stance, usually held by people who can't entirely let go of God.

However, again there is a complete absense of evidence and the introduction of a deity does nothing but confuse and complicate the matter beyond all recognition.

I have ever let others enjoy their religious sentiment and do not judge them, no matter how unsupportable or absurd.

*cough*

[Punkus]

I am curious Rush, what experiences have you had in life with more organized religions? What has influenced you to side with this doctrine? More specifically, does your thinking stem from exposure(positive OR negative) to more organized religious institutions?

I'm just interested to know more about your thoughts.

[Kanaric]

I have ever let others enjoy their religious sentiment and do not judge them, no matter how unsupportable or absurd.

Yes...

Almost all of the Founding Fathers were deists, btw.

I am curious Rush, what experiences have you had in life with more organized religions? What has influenced you to side with this doctrine? More specifically, does your thinking stem from exposure(positive OR negative) to more organized religious institutions?

I feel pretty much how he does but I always had positive experiances. At catholic and methodist church, which are the two I went to.

I just didn't feel "moved" i guess you can say.

[Rush Limbaugh]

I am curious Rush, what experiences have you had in life with more organized religions? What has influenced you to side with this doctrine? More specifically, does your thinking stem from exposure(positive OR negative) to more organized religious institutions?

I grew up Roman Catholic. I went to religous studies all the way from 1st grade through high school. any religion that claims it is the only true religion and that it is the only way to salvation is full of crap as far as Im concerned. Teaching us things like a catholic can kill someone but if they confess and are truly sorry they will go to heaven but if a Jew leads a totaly sinless life and follows the Torah he is doomed to hell convinced me that they dont know what there talking about. Organised religion has bastardised the teaching of Jesus. I believe god is in all of us . All you have to do is search for him. Again what makes one more of a christian. One who belongs to an organised christian religion and goes to church but sins constantly or one who follows the teachings of Christ but belongs to no church. IMO its the latter.

[Siblesz]

As you, I grew up Roman Catholic. My first great change in beliefs came when I was 15. I became a Deist. It is the philosophy that I most agreed with at the time, and the most rational alternative to a Catholic youth who had rebelled against the Church. Ever since then, my beliefs have varied from one extreme to the other, but of Deism, I can only speak kindly of. It's the most utopian and dystopian philosophy that I have come accross with, and therein lies its true strength and weakness. Deism also gives us a depiction of the intelligentsia of the 18th to 19th centuries. It's the nexus between the radical Catholicism of the 16th century, and the revolutionary existentialism of the 20th century. That is why it is such a great philosophy to live by. It provides the best of Christianity with the best of intellectualism.

[LSJ]

I have ever let others enjoy their religious sentiment and do not judge them, no matter how unsupportable or absurd.

Is not believing a belief is absurd judging?

Anyway, I am a diest. I believe in some greater being and that an afterlife is a possibility, but I don't follow any organized religion.

There are a lot of Christians who are actually Diests, because they question the bible and may not believe a lot of what it says. I was a Protestant/Catholic (too young to know), questioned the bible, and became an athiest for years. A few years ago I became a Diest.

[Legio XX Valeria Victrix]

So do any of you agree totally with this list? How about most of it? If its most what things do you dissagree on. And do any of you have a different idea of what represents diesm?

Actually, almost all of that list coordinates with what i believe, except for this one:

I have ever let others enjoy their religious sentiment and do not judge them, no matter how unsupportable or absurd.

I don't ridicule them to their faces, but I must admit that my thoughts about them are none too kind or accepting, especially if they are beliefs that are absurd and are then forced upon others or used to assert supremacy.

Other than that, Franklin seems to have had very similar beliefs as myself.

[Rush Limbaugh]

Maybe we should start the church of Diesim. Theres an oximoron for you.

[Sétanta]

I consider myself Diest at times. I am quasi-diest I suppose. Sometimes I support the Church, sometimes not. My beliefs swing, depending on my mood.

I always believe in God and the divinity of Jesus. Beyond that I am a little shakey with. Again, depending on my mood.

I'll probably end up one or the other once my teen years end

[Tom Paine]

Maybe we should start the church of Diesim. Theres an oximoron for you.

Quite an interesting one though, because it might not be so; that is, a church does not need to centre around a revealed God, if it simply acts as a place of worship and an organised time of worship, and a place to meet and discuss.

[I Have a Clever Name]

It's the most utopian and dystopian philosophy that I have come accross with, and therein lies its true strength and weakness. Deism also gives us a depiction of the intelligentsia of the 18th to 19th centuries. It's the nexus between the radical Catholicism of the 16th century, and the revolutionary existentialism of the 20th century. That is why it is such a great philosophy to live by. It provides the best of Christianity with the best of intellectualism.

So you base your philosophical stance on how it is representative of different intellectual stances throughout history? Whatever happened to reason? Deism contravenes the principle of parsimony.

[OldGhost]

I never thought that I would agree with you on anything. I
apprently have a baseline from which I can develope an understanding.

[Jabberwock]

So do any of you agree totally with this list? How about most of it? If its most what things do you dissagree on. And do any of you have a different idea of what represents diesm?

I'm more of a follower of these unofficial tenets:

• 1. Belief in God based on Reason, Experience and Nature (nature of the universe) rather than on the basis of holy texts and divine revelation. Essentially, through the use of Reason, God’s existence is revealed by the observation of the order and complexity found within nature and our personal experiences.
  
  2. Belief that the nature of God is abstract and generally incomprehensible which puts it beyond definition for humanity at this time. Furthermore, human language is limited and inadequate to define God; however, man can use Reason to theorize and speculate on what this possible nature is.
  
  3. Belief that mans relationship with God is transpersonal. However, this does not create a feeling of a distant and cold deity but of one in which God has a profound and unfathomable relationship with all of creation (nature) rather than just one aspect of it.
  
  4. Belief that humanity has the ability to use Reason to develop ethical/moral principles and through the application of Reason these principles can be used to implement moral behavior, which in turn creates a Utilitarian-Humanist morality. Essentially, humans can be guided by their conscience in matters of morality.
  
  5. Belief that humans have the individual capability of experiencing God, which is defined as spirituality. These spiritual experiences are multi-faceted and can include awe, epiphany, fellowship and even the transcendental. Essentially, each human is capable of having a profound experience of God and nature.
  
  6. Belief that God should be honored in a way that the individual believes is best and most appropriate for them. Individuals must determine for themselves how best to honor God and only they can develop how to accomplish this. For many, it is a multi-faceted and an individualized process.
  
  7. Belief in the principle of Natural Law that states that all men and women are created equal to each other with inherent freedom and liberty so that no human has more worth than another. Essentially, each human is equal in terms of the freedoms that they have and in the eyes of the law.
  
  8. Belief that mankind’s purpose is to use our God-given reason to understand what it means to be alive in every sense of the word (to live life to the fullest) and to act in such a way as to secure human happiness and contentment for all involved.
  
  9. Belief that Reason and Respect are God-given traits to mankind and that we are to utilize them in all aspects of our daily lives thus creating a pragmatic approach to life. This includes respecting other alternative views and opinions of God (other religions) as long as they do not produce harm and/or infringe upon others.

http://www.moderndeism.com/html/deism_defined.html

[Ragabash]

Just out of curiosity, do you mind if I ask few questions regarding your faith?

I believe in one God, Creator of the universe

Is this god part of the universe? or above its laws? And if he is an outsider, could there be more of them (gods)?

He (God) governs it by His providence.

Just the earth or whole universe? And this universe, or are there other dimensions he, or other gods govern?

He ought to be worshiped

Why? Does he needs people to worship him? or does he just have an obsession of himself?

We best render God service by doing good for his other children

Are we more important to this god than lifeless particles he has created? And why?

The souls of man is immortal

Why? And what is this soul everyone keeps on talking about?

The soul will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this.

So if the soul travels to another life, is it in this world, space, or in other dimension? And how do you know (feel?) your soul is going to be judged by justice, and not by other means by this god?

Jesus of Nazareth left to us a system of morals and his religion.

Is this religion (or god it represent to us) divine?

Jesus’ has received various corrupt changes to his teachings (by the Christian church.)

Christians did not exist during the time frame of Jesus. If you are talking about later changes, well there we have whole sections of a bible removed and added as time has went on.

I [Franklin] doubt the divinity of Jesus, but I do not dogmatize upon it or busy myself with it because I never studied it

If Jesus was not divine, then isn't christian bible just a book instead of divine message? And if you doubt this, then you must doubt the whole religion, right?

This will lead to a conclusion you are just as much christian as I am (I am an atheist) because you do not fully accept Jesus as your saviour and biblical god as sole supreme power.

I expect to know the truth when I die

The truth? On what? And whos truth?

I do not have any problem with those who do believe in the divinity of Jesus.

With ideological differences, or problems in general?

I don’t think that the Supreme Being doesn’t take it amiss whether you believe or not.

Why? Are we special creations of this god? Do you believe in creatonism of sort?

I have experienced the goodness of God in conducting me prosperously though a long life.

How have you experienced the god? Are you sure the feeling isn't just a production of something else? Do you believe in miracles? magic?

I have not doubt in God’s continuance of this in the next life, without the smallest conceit of meriting it.

Just a plain; why?

I have ever let others enjoy their religious sentiment and do not judge them, no matter how unsupportable or absurd.

Does the god judge them differently? How about those that do not believe in god(s)?

I hope to go out of this world in peace with all religious sects.

I have to agree, but perhaps from a different reasons I suppose.

Even Socrates remembered on his deathbed that he owed a sacrificial cock

And was Socrates more than just a brilliant man? Why is this even mentioned here?

[Zenith Darksea]

Just a point of order - it's spelt 'deist', not 'diest'. The Latin word is deus, and '-ist' is the agent suffix, hence 'deist'. I wouldn't mention it, only several people have got this wrong already.

I must admit, I have more respect for deism than I do for atheism, but that's in the same way that I respect Protestant Christianity more than other religions, Roman Catholicism more than Protestantism, and Orthodox Christianity more than Roman Catholicism.

Still, if you're going to believe in a God, why it seems silly to believe that there might be absolute moral standards as well is beyond me.

[Jabberwock]

Ragabash, a lot of those statements fall under classical deism. There has been development of the philosophy of deism since Franklin's time.

Is this god part of the universe? or above its laws? And if he is an outsider, could there be more of them (gods)?

Depends what deist you ask. On the question of multiple gods, I'll just take this from an FAQ:
Basically no, Deists believe that if there were more than one or multiple components of one, then it could be traced back to whichever single one is the original or most powerful. This idea is also the foundation of monotheism and Unitarianism.

Just the earth or whole universe? And this universe, or are there other dimensions he, or other gods govern?

All of his creation. Yes, the whole universe, everything.

Why? Does he needs people to worship him? or does he just have an obsession of himself?

Depends on who you ask. Some deists find they like to worship him, others don't. Although I believe the common deist does not worship God. I don't.

Are we more important to this god than lifeless particles he has created? And why?

Edit:I just reread this question.
No we are not more important. Why should we be?

Why? And what is this soul everyone keeps on talking about?

Depends on who you ask. There are deists who do not believe the soul is immortal. There are deists who believe there is no soul at all.

So if the soul travels to another life, is it in this world, space, or in other dimension? And how do you know (feel?) your soul is going to be judged by justice, and not by other means by this god?

The deist does not know what this other life is. As Thomas Paine said in Age of Reason, he hoped for happiness in the next life. Just gonna have to wait until you're dead.

From the an FAQ again:
Some think that it is the end of life with only one's children and productive works to live on, while others believe life's energy continues in another form, but disagree on whether or not it involves judgment and heaven.

Is this religion (or god it represent to us) divine?

No.

If Jesus was not divine, then isn't christian bible just a book instead of divine message? And if you doubt this, then you must doubt the whole religion, right?

Of course, deism is the rejection of all revealed religions. What is treasured by the deist is the moral teachings.

This will lead to a conclusion you are just as much christian as I am (I am an atheist) because you do not fully accept Jesus as your saviour and biblical god as sole supreme power.

Read above.

The truth? On what? And whos truth?

Afterlife. God. The soul. That kind of stuff.

With ideological differences, or problems in general?

Ideological differences.

How have you experienced the god? Are you sure the feeling isn't just a production of something else? Do you believe in miracles? magic?

No the deist does not believe in miracles, magic, and all that other nonsense.

Just a plain; why?

Again, subjective.

Does the god judge them differently? How about those that do not believe in god(s)?

No.

I have to agree, but perhaps from a different reasons I suppose.

Just like many deists.

[Chaigidel]

I consider myself a deist of sorts; but I think god still moves every little thing, like waves in the water.