MDMA in therapy

[Nutsack]

The drug known as 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine has been used since it's discovery for the purpose of assisting in therapy, often by helping the patient overcome his/her own mental boundaries, fears, anxiety and ego. From Wikipedia:

Many studies, particularly in the fields of psychology and cognitive therapy, have suggested that MDMA has therapeutic benefits and facilitates therapy sessions in certain individuals, a practice for which it had formally been used in the past. Clinical trials are now testing the therapeutic potential of MDMA for post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and anxiety associated with terminal cancer.

With it's classification as an illegal narcotic, that however came to a quick end. Or supposedly, apparently it's been used in therapy underground:

Untold thousands of practitioners have risked their licenses to use MDMA in underground clinical settings since 1985, when the drug was added to Schedule I (the Drug Enforcement Administration's category for substances with no accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse). To these therapists, MDMA offers the opposite of party-hard escapism—instead, they see the drug as a catalyst for digging deep into the human psyche. For the four or so hours that a dose lasts, it prompts a surge in serotonin and dopamine (neurochemicals associated with sensations of happiness and pleasure) and oxytocin (the chemical messenger of trust and bonding that, for example, mothers feel when nursing their babies). MDMA also tames the brain's fear center, the amygdala, and subdues the fight-or-flight response that pushes the nervous system into adrenaline-fueled overdrive in times of stress. Any apprehension a trauma patient might ordinarily suffer in therapy—about revisiting trigger memories or confronting painful emotions—is muted, but without the sedative effects of antianxiety medications. MDMA enhances the patient's powers of visualization, but without the involuntary hallucinations conjured by psychedelic drugs such as LSD or psilocybin. And MDMA has profound (and as yet mostly mysterious) full-body analgesic properties. An injured veteran or victim of abuse can suddenly enter a world free of pain. A rape survivor or a person with an eating disorder can grasp what it's like to be comfortable in her own skin.

Now when we finally have started to see marijuana being accepted into medicine, is it time to accept MDMA as well? What do you think? The amount of evidence that it helps people is overwhelming. Would you vote yes for medical MDMA? No? Why not?
I've never tried it myself so don't judge me. All I can see is evidence that it needs to be used in medicine.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
http://hplusmagazine.com/2009/12/23/...-mdma-therapy/
http://www.oprah.com/health/PTSD-and...s-of-Ecstasy/2
http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/
http://healthland.time.com/2011/02/1...een-overblown/

[chilon]

The drug known as 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine has been used since it's discovery for the purpose of assisting in therapy, often by helping the patient overcome his/her own mental boundaries, fears, anxiety and ego. From Wikipedia:

With it's classification as an illegal narcotic, that however came to a quick end. Or supposedly, apparently it's been used in therapy underground:

Now when we finally have started to see marijuana being accepted into medicine, is it time to accept MDMA as well? What do you think? The amount of evidence that it helps people is overwhelming. Would you vote yes for medical MDMA? No? Why not?
I've never tried it myself so don't judge me. All I can see is evidence that it needs to be used in medicine.



Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDMA
http://hplusmagazine.com/2009/12/23/...-mdma-therapy/
http://www.oprah.com/health/PTSD-and...s-of-Ecstasy/2
http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/
http://healthland.time.com/2011/02/1...een-overblown/

Everything you typed is true. MDMA (an empathogen) was certainly used in therapy for a long time.

But...its use is quite a bit different than marihuana. If it was taken off the Schedule list of controlled substances for therapy it would have to be in a very different context than THC. You couldn't just have people go into a semi-legitimate doctor, claim some injury and get a prescription for MDMA. That would be asking for a lot of trouble.

If you were to loosen the requirements and allow MDMA in therapy it would have to be conducted by someone licensed to distribute scripts (Psychiatrist rather than a psychologist) and it would have to have strict controlled uses. Like patients could arrange a session with a therapist and the therapist controls the MDMA at all times. He would only give the patients enough for one dose to be used under strictly controlled situations. No way should a doctor be able to write a prescription for MDMA and some patient gets a bottle of 100 pills.

With it's classification as an illegal narcotic, that however came to a quick end. Or supposedly, apparently it's been used in therapy underground:

One thing that has always been frustrating with the suits at DEA or whatever is that they classify things as narcotics that are not narcotics at all.

I guess the word "narcotic" has a different jargon meaning to DEA agents or something but in medical terms a narcotic specifically refers to an opiate based substance: heroin, morphine, methadone, oxycontin are all narcotics in the medical sense. MDMA is not a narcotic. In fact, despite the inclusion of amphetamine in its chemical name, MDMA is not a stimulant or upper (as amphetamines and methampethetines both are). That is why its important to classify it as an empathogen because it is a different substance than either narcotics, stimulants or hallucinogens (LSD, Psilocybin, DMT).

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Everything you typed is true. MDMA (an empathogen) was certainly used in therapy for a long time.

But...its use is quite a bit different than marihuana. If it was taken off the Schedule list of controlled substances for therapy it would have to be in a very different context than THC. You couldn't just have people go into a semi-legitimate doctor, claim some injury and get a prescription for MDMA. That would be asking for a lot of trouble.

If you were to loosen the requirements and allow MDMA in therapy it would have to be conducted by someone licensed to distribute scripts (Psychiatrist rather than a psychologist) and it would have to have strict controlled uses. Like patients could arrange a session with a therapist and the therapist controls the MDMA at all times. He would only give the patients enough for one dose to be used under strictly controlled situations. No way should a doctor be able to write a prescription for MDMA and some patient gets a bottle of 100 pills.

I think it would be better if people drank MDMA in their drinks rather than ethanol.

[alexanderswift]

I was going to go on a tangent about how MDMA is highly addictive and has quite a few negative side effects both physically and mentally but I bit my tongue after I remembered they still give out Adderall.


Personally I'd vote it down without much thought, but I would like to see some more official studies authorized. If it's effectiveness is proven more thoroughly, I would support it.

[God]

I was going to go on a tangent about how MDMA is highly addictive

No. No it is not.

seeing what MDMA does to people with no regulation certainly colours my view on the subject.

Makes them hug each other and say embarrassing things?

I'll give you the serotonin imbalances but that only becomes a serious problem if it's really overused. It's one of the safest drugs.

[alexanderswift]

No. No it is not.



Makes them hug each other and say embarrassing things?

I'll give you the serotonin imbalances but that only becomes a serious problem if it's really overused. It's one of the safest drugs.

You've got to be joking.

[The Last Spartan]

Although MDMA certainly has some good short term theraputical use, I would have to diagree with any long term use. I was once a regular user of MDMA (as well as other drugs) at one point, and it can take a huge toll on a person. The thing about MDMA is that it forces the brain to create a huge amount of seratonin - almost like Blitzing resources into your brain, but what happens after that is that it dries out the brain from producing the chemical. The main thing about psychological drugs is they don't actually address the source of the problems that most people "need" it for. However, I am aware that there are some people that simply don't produce enough of the chemical compounds that their body needs. Some people have chemical imbalances in their brain that no matter what that person does it's imbalanced. The same principle applies to people that are born with a weak pituitary gland and their bodies don't producer enough testosterone or estrogen. In those cases, I would agree that "hard" drugs can be used for thereputical treatment.

[Nutsack]

I have a varicocele which basically means that my body doesn't produce as much testosterone as it would have otherwise. Does this mean that I could possibly be given testosterone treament at the doctor? Either way I'm going to the office to arrange a meeting to see about that later.

Anyways, back to what you guys said earlier I agree that there probably isn't any good reason to prescribe large amounts over a long period of time like marijuana. These are two very different medications and should therefore be treated differently. I would agree to MDMA being used only in therapy sessions and not prescribed for home use. I said earlier that I hadn't used MDMA, and I haven't. But I have used empathogens and entactogens earlier, but of a weaker form of chemical called 4-methylethylcathinone. This drug I used was also a cathinone, which MDMA is not (what that means is some difference in effects). The drug I used was closely related to Mephedrone, a bath salt. Either way, I believe that the empathogenic effects it had on me changed me for the better. I felt the importance of love, for everything including my family. It did a lot of other positive things like allow me to self-reflect on a completely new level without interference by the ego. Eventually I succumbed to a terrible addiction and had to stop, so I realize that these drugs probably shouldn't be prescribed, but restricted to therapy sessions only. But I understand the raw power of what a chemical like MDMA has on the human psyche, it can help heal people who are otherwise beyond help, and I am sure of that it needs to be utilized.

I have to disagree with you alexanderswift, a lot of studies have been made on MDMA and its therapeutic effects. A lot of people have come to the conclusion that it's definitely a medicine. But, as our society tends to disregard some medicines because of ignorance I guess change will come slowly.

[alexanderswift]

I have to disagree with you alexanderswift, a lot of studies have been made on MDMA and its therapeutic effects. A lot of people have come to the conclusion that it's definitely a medicine. But, as our society tends to disregard some medicines because of ignorance I guess change will come slowly.

I agree with your point about it only being used for home therapy but MDMA can cause severe serotonin imbalances, along with muscle issues and a long list of mental issues. If it was very carefully controlled, I could agree with it but seeing what MDMA does to people with no regulation certainly colours my view on the subject.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

I took it for nearly 2years every week end and it was easy to give it up no withdrawals.
It helps people feel empathy and talk about things.
It was 1st created for couples and their marriage.I could see it used in therapy.
I had post traumatic stress and it cured my issue.It is less dangerous than alcohol and other drugs you will never fight on it and even hug your enemy's.

[God]

No.

[alexanderswift]

No.

Do you have any actual experience with narcotics or just a folder of un-sourced graphs?

[God]

The charts from Professor David Nutt and the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs.

Do you have any actual experience with narcotics or just a folder of un-sourced graphs?

Don't know if I should go into this, but yes. MDMA included.

[alexanderswift]

The charts from Professor David Nutt and the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs.

Though I suppose I should point out the difference between psychological and chemical dependency before we start down this road.

Don't know if I should go into this, but yes. MDMA included.

Then I guess we've had drastically different experiences.

I cannot fathom medical MDMA not being abused on a large scale, small scale therapy could be plausible but in the same way as marijuana...


Edit: Well regardless it's effectiveness as medicine is proven and being phased in very slowly and carefully for use in therapy could work and I would be in support of.
Drugs in general are a messy topic for a long list of reasons so let's avoid that debate and stick to the medical side of things. Apologies for my earlier manner and all that.

[Nutsack]

If an experience is fun and enjoyable it is going to be psychologically desireable, simple as that. But a physiological dependency on MDMA? I'm not so sure about that, if anything it will simply fry your brain if you use it every day.

I know personally because I fried my brain with 4-MEC and I know how it literally feels when your brain starts to get damaged from serotonin and dopamine overload. You start to experience feelings of electric shock every now and then followed by rapid loss of consciousness. You will start to have these experiences when doing certain things, like for me it happened each time I drank a glass of water, or was falling into sleep at night.

MDMA used in therapy and medecine however will not reach those high dosage levels that I put myself through, and that ravers put themselves to. That is the important difference here, any clinical administration will be very low, because the purpose is not to get high but to receive just some of the effect that it has on the mind in order to proceed with the therapy. I can see this being used in PSTD and terminal illness related anxiety, as well as many other diseases and disorders.

The only thing stopping MDMA from becoming a medicine is in my opinion ignorance. Not a whole lot of people read up on it or even care, and because of that they will be remain against it because it is a classified narcotic.

[alexanderswift]

If an experience is fun and enjoyable it is going to be psychologically desireable, simple as that. But a physiological dependency on MDMA? I'm not so sure about that, if anything it will simply fry your brain if you use it every day.

The high of MDMA would be the cause, but in small enough doses for the high to be minimal it might not end up being an issue. However, if treatment is long term it still could be.

MDMA used in therapy and medecine however will not reach those high dosage levels that I put myself through, and that ravers put themselves to. That is the important difference here, any clinical administration will be very low, because the purpose is not to get high but to receive just some of the effect that it has on the mind in order to proceed with the therapy. I can see this being used in PSTD and terminal illness related anxiety, as well as many other diseases and disorders.

The only thing stopping MDMA from becoming a medicine is in my opinion ignorance. Not a whole lot of people read up on it or even care, and because of that they will be remain against it because it is a classified narcotic.

The problem with MDMA is that it's usually an ingredient in Ecstasy, and thus as a standalone product less well known. Then of course people are always a bit wary of using narcotics to begin with, has anyone proposed for it to be legalized or has it never even made it that far? I'd also wonder if they use it in therapy in countries where it is legal.

The problem with the psychological dependency could be limited depending on the situation and dosage, but it would be a very person by person case. No two people will have the same feelings towards the drug and the high, and so it would be hard for there to be a definitive answer. That said, any drug legal or otherwise that does have noticeable "effects" let's call them runs that risk. So again it comes back to circumstance and regulation.

[chilon]

The problem with MDMA is that it's usually an ingredient in Ecstasy, and thus as a standalone product less well known. Then of course people are always a bit wary of using narcotics to begin with, has anyone proposed for it to be legalized or has it never even made it that far? I'd also wonder if they use it in therapy in countries where it is legal.

1. Ecstasy *is* MDMA. At least historically thats what it was. Ecstasy is/was the street name for pure MDMA. It was coined at the start of the underground rave scene c.1988-1993. If you were looking for ecstasy, you were looking for pure MDMA. I understand that what might get sold on the streets nowadays as "ecstasy" might be any number of different substances or chemical combinations but the name was coined specifically for pure MDMA. There is no drug called "ecstasy". Anyone can sell some pill of whatever and call it "ecstasy" but the word was coined to refer to only MDMA and from at least 1988 to 1998 that was what the street slang referred to.

2. MDMA is not a narcotic. Its an empathogen.

3. MDMA is not addictive like narcotics, tobacco or cocaine based substances.

On a side note MDMA was first synthesized in 1912 by Merck.

[God]

Though I suppose I should point out the difference between psychological and chemical dependency before we start down this road.

I guess an argument could be made for it being psychologically addictive, but really I look at it the same way I look at skiing. I love skiing and give me a chance to go and I'll be there in a shot, but I don't feel bad when I'm not skiing or anything, I can wait for winter holidays.

I agree that if used medically it could be abused, I think having it given out just for therapy sessions is the way to go (and what they want to do I think)

Apologies for my earlier manner and all that.

Nothing to apologise about man

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

You can get a kit to test the quality of your xtc and the level's of MDMA will show up.
I worked Mon to Fri for 2yrs and took xtc every Sat night for 2 yrs and when i decided to stop I did so easily.
It is not addictive and sometimes I would buy MDMA itself and enjoyed it.You only want to take it again as it feels great and you are very happy on it.
As long as you do not start taking coke and other drugs and moderate your use you will be ok.
I believe soldiers should be given it when they come back from war if they have issues with post traumatic stress disorder.It can help them talk to a trained doctor and they can understand things better.It clears your head.If it was sold by the government it would be safer for the user.At least you would get proper stuff and a drug dealer would not get the cash.It could be used like medical hash.

[alexanderswift]

One experience is not every experience and psychological dependency hinges on a great number of factors. It isn't the drug itself that they'd be getting addicted to, but the high. It could be avoided with careful screening of patients and very careful dosage control however.

But yes, use on PTSD sufferers is fully legitimate and ought to be okayed.