Is there any way to make it so that Harad can't invade from every direction possible?

[LuxAngel7]

I really enjoy this mod, and thoroughly acknowledge and express gratitude for the artistry, dedication and work that went into it.

However, there are some things that are utterly ridiculous and stupid, (cough cough AI cheat scripts) but that's ok, because they are easy enough to disable and people are friendly to help you out with that.

But now I have encountered one thing that I never saw before 3.2:

Im playing as Gondor, getting attacked instantly by Mordor, by Isengard after turn 15 and Harad after turn 20. So in a short 20 turns Im fighting a three front war. Now you might say "tough cookies you picked Gondor" ok, yeah I understand that, but I don't remember reading or watching in any of the LOTR stuff that Harad could magically cross the rivers and seas to attack Gondor from wherever it wants.

Now I understand that since the beginning you could cross those little islands to the south of Gondor, which is ludicrous enough to me, as I dont see how an army crosses any body of water without logistics.

But now Harad is crossing even through the territory below west osgiliath.

This is effectively making even a "normal" difficulty campaign impossible, as there is no possible way to field enough units to effectively defend on so many incursion points at the same time. (without cheating ofc)

So is there any way to make it so that Harad can't magically fly over water however they please?

This is especially stupid because if they can do this, then what the hell is the point of corsair invasions? They just equip their magical middle eastern...I mean "Harad" wings and fly to Gondor!

Any help is appreciated.

[Wizad]

You can place a boat on the crossing between Pelagir and North Harondor. Just place one of your own units from Pelagir near the crossing to see the exact path (it will show up in green if you have enough movement points). Now place a ship in the middle of that path. Enemy armies are no longer able to cross the river there while you still can!
As a result you will only have to defend against Mordor at Osgiliath, Cair Andros and east Rohan if the Rohan AI doesn't defend its border, and against Harad at the Islands southwest of Pelagir.

Isengard attacking you so fast is simply bad luck. Most of the time the Rohan AI manages to box Isengard in and take the Orthanc sooner or later.


My strategy when playing Gondor:
Spend most of your early game money on economic infrastructure. You need to be an economic powerhouse by the time Harad runs on full steam.
Take the rebel settlement in the west. Just use the units that are already close to it.

Move all units that are not free upkeep, nor used for anything at the moment, to the frontline. You need 2 early game armies. One to start harassing north Harad at Harondor and one to take the Cair Andros and then the Ithilien from Mordor.
Don't become too zealous with your Harad army. Moving it too far towards Hyarmen means that you can't reinforce it, which means that you will get grinded down by Harad stacks. Make sure your Harad army has plenty of spearmen and heavy infantry. Harad is your strongest enemy in my opinion.
You don't have to hurry with your Mordor army, just make sure you are able to take and hold Cair Andros, Henneth Annun and East Osgiliath. Your Mordor army doesn't have to consist of the best units. Your militia supported by decent archers and some general's cavalry will beat most of what Mordor can throw at you in the early game.

When you have the money, start upgrading Henneth Annun. Henneth Annun is one of the places where you can recruit Ithilien Rangers.

Harad might beat you back in the midgame a bit. Don't worry about that. If you are into semi-gamey tactics, raze all of the cities that you captured on Harad's side of the river. It will give you gold and slow down Harad's advance. Remember to pull your army back, don't let your army die against Harad.

Mordor will either send small armies at you, or ignore you altogether. Just keep an ambush of Faramir and some Ithilien Rangers, Gondor Archer Militia and Gondor archers outside of the Black Gate and between you and Minas Morgul.

Late game you will definitely need to deal with Harad. Either use one stack to harass Harondor and south and north of that while also sending at stack to Umbar by boat, or use two stacks to simply grind through Harondor straight to Umbar and Hyarmen. It is important that you capture Umbar!

Mordor late game only adds trolls to the mix. As long as you upgraded your military infrastructure at Minas Tirith and the Ithilien, you can hold Mordor back while you defeat Harad.

[Æsir]

Maybe try to play easy/easy in place of cheating?

[LuxAngel7]

Hey wizad, thanks for your reply, and believe me, I did try that exact same strategy, because I remember from playing Vanilla TW that I could not cross or move through enemy ships. However, this strategy does not work at all for me neither at the little annoying as **** islands, neither at the random river/sea crossing next to Pelargir (I think thats the name of the town)

Thanks for the tip, but it doesn't seem to work for me

Also: Aesir, I don't cheat, that's the whole point of my post, Im trying to play fairly, but the way the map is made with bs crossings for Harad wherever it pleases it makes it ridiculously impossible, especially since Im already fighting Isengard (Rohan sucks....never seen them hold their border) and Mordor

[Wizad]

Are you sure that you can't block the crossing at Pelargir with a boat? Did you place it on the right spot? One square to the right or to the left means that your enemy can still cross the river, you have to place it exactly on the crossing.

The crossing at the little islands southwest from Pelargir are not blockable. You will need to defend this with a real land army.



I just took this screenshot to show you where to place the ship. Select one of your own land units in Pelargir or somewhere close to see where the crossing is. Then select the ship and place it on the crossing. Select the land unit again to make sure you placed the ship correctly. I installed MOS recently so you have to ignore that city south of Pelargir.

[Darth Lord Revan]

Check this thread with small modifications: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=523000

The second message from lollsuck gives you 2 different alternatives for passages south of Gondor.

I hope it helps!

[Shea O'Gorath]

If you read the books you would know that it is right for Harad to attack from any and all places because they are notorious pirates

[The Mouth]

If you read the books you would know that it is right for Harad to attack from any and all places because they are notorious pirates

Thats more Umbar than Harad.

But anyways, maybe you should try easy? I mean the reason that passage was made was because Harad didn't properly use the crossing at the mouth of the Anduin. (In other words it was deemed too easy)

[Toshach]

Harad is way overpowered. When playing as Gondor, Harad poses a far greater threat than Mordor, and this is not the way it was in the books. That's my story, and I'm stickin to it.

[StealthFox]

Im playing as Gondor, getting attacked instantly by Mordor, by Isengard after turn 15 and Harad after turn 20. So in a short 20 turns Im fighting a three front war. Now you might say "tough cookies you picked Gondor" ok, yeah I understand that, but I don't remember reading or watching in any of the LOTR stuff that Harad could magically cross the rivers and seas to attack Gondor from wherever it wants.

Normally Isengard doesn't attack Gondor, (at least in my experience) so I'm not sure what happened there.

Now I understand that since the beginning you could cross those little islands to the south of Gondor, which is ludicrous enough to me, as I dont see how an army crosses any body of water without logistics.

But now Harad is crossing even through the territory below west osgiliath.

This is effectively making even a "normal" difficulty campaign impossible, as there is no possible way to field enough units to effectively defend on so many incursion points at the same time. (without cheating ofc)

So is there any way to make it so that Harad can't magically fly over water however they please?

This is especially stupid because if they can do this, then what the hell is the point of corsair invasions? They just equip their magical middle eastern...I mean "Harad" wings and fly to Gondor!

Any help is appreciated.

The reasons for the Pelargir crossing isn't for AI "cheat" it's for pathfinding issues. According to KK, if it wasn't there the AI would get bunched up along the Anduin not knowing where to go. And yes, Harad/Umbar was a constant threat to all of southern Gondor. They could strike anywhere. So, it's not a problem as far as lore is concerned.

There's also another passage just above the Argonath. So, don't rage if you see Mordor coming for Minas Tirith from the north.

Hey wizad, thanks for your reply, and believe me, I did try that exact same strategy, because I remember from playing Vanilla TW that I could not cross or move through enemy ships. However, this strategy does not work at all for me neither at the little annoying as **** islands, neither at the random river/sea crossing next to Pelargir (I think thats the name of the town)

You must be doing something wrong. It is possible to block Pelargir the passage with a naval fleet. However, I don't think it's possible to block to small island crossing at the southernmost part of the Anduin.

If you read the books you would know that it is right for Harad to attack from any and all places because they are notorious pirates

Thats more Umbar than Harad.

As far as this game is concerned Umbar and Harad are the same.

[LuxAngel7]

Thanks to everyone for answering and helping out, I really appreciate it!

And just to clarify, I know from the books and movies and w/e that Harad are notorious pirates and Gondor was always at risk, what bothered me in the game is that land armies could just cross over almost wherever they pleased without ships.

I was expecting either by boat or by corsair invasions or something, or through osgiliath since it is the only real "land" connection.

But I understand that maybe this was not possible to do in the mod or whatever, and thanks again to everyone who helped

[Bladvak]

Take all the generals from Dol Amroth to Pelargir and put them in 1-2 stacks and send them to Harad. Make the infantry from those cities follow you by their own speed.

The 2 generals from the 2 Westernmost provinces, along with the units in them + recruitable units, will defend that part + will attack Isengard (I've conquered Orthanc with them in like turn 20, VH/VH)

Against Mordor, your best defence is Cirith Ungol. Once you take that, it's piece of cake - you hold the lower road, while Mordor needs to go through the Black Gate. Make sure you go for the Mordor Lake and let Barad-dur for last. Be aware that if you take Minas Morgul some pretty good units will spawn in Mordor proper. If you keep Mordor's eye fixed on Minas Morgul, you can take the rest of the provinces outside Mordor without them obstructing you.

Strategies :
- use plenty of cavalry and cavalry charges. Keep making Generals with your armies against Harad. To do this, attack with a Militia cavalry reinforced by a stack of generals. Withdraw your Militia cavalry and fight only with your generals. When you win, you will be offered to adopt the captain.

- use plenty of archers against Mordor. build archery ranges wherever you can. 3 units of melee infantry should be enough in a 20-unit stack. make sure you have a few Ithilien rangers. Use your custom generals wisely (Denethor rocks against Mordor, so does Faramir). Make sure Boromir does not get into the thick of battle.

- build cavalry ranges and DO NOT AUTORESOLVE with cavalry! charge, retreat, regroup, charge again. I've won battles with cavalry where the odds were 1 to 10(in number of men, not units). you can handle 1-5 for start easily.

- take Cair Andros as soon as you can. build archery rangers there and in Henneth Annun. there's no reason to build anything else there, except good roads in Henneth Annun.

- last, build roads in the path of reinforcing armies. build armories in Minas Tirith and a few other cities (E. or W. Osgiliath, for ex)


Make sure that you understand the game. Without knowing the game mechanics, you can read and read and read and will still get your a$$ kicked.

Posting a save, just so you know it can be done and I'm not just BS you. Conquered Isengard, but had too few units and let it revolt.

[frenchyvinnie]

Against Mordor, your best defence is Cirith Ungol. Once you take that, it's piece of cake - you hold the lower road, while Mordor needs to go through the Black Gate.

Well, I'd say it depends. If I look at my own campaign, I took Cirith Ungol only to see every orc at Sauron's disposal thrown against it. I've already lost/recaptured it two times, and Mordor has started a third siege with yet another full-strength army. I'm losing insane numbers of troops just to keep it.
On the other hand, Aragorn walked up to the Black Gate and took it almost unopposed...

[Cabongue]

Well, I'd say it depends. If I look at my own campaign, I took Cirith Ungol only to see every orc at Sauron's disposal thrown against it. I've already lost/recaptured it two times, and Mordor has started a third siege with yet another full-strength army. I'm losing insane numbers of troops just to keep it.
On the other hand, Aragorn walked up to the Black Gate and took it almost unopposed...

I'm playing silvan elves and while i was helping Rohan tacking back their settlements from Isengard, i stumbled upon a village with no walls. Saruman was inside with half a stack of forces plus some artillery. It was really weird, just rained arrows on them and the isengard faction was gone. Isengard itself was barely guarded. (i checked it before it turned into rebels).

[ThaDoews]

On easy you can beat Mordor and Harad with ease though they never invade you before The Dark Lord calls for an invasion... Beat all the armies and then nothing before the next invasion ;/

[Macilrille]

Saruman often does that. I have suggested to KK that he give Saruman no movement when the AI plays him so he will stay safe in Orthanc, for Isengard is very vulnerable that way. But we are straying OT.