PC vs Mac

[Consul Napoleon Bonaparte]

The question of the 21st century. Who do you prefer and why?

Personally, I prefer PC due to higher gaming capabilities and accessibility.

[Bolkonsky]

There is no question. Apple is overpriced, half assed, and completely useless.

Sent from my SGH-T499

[Colossus]

Are intentionally controversial threads your speciality? I think more important things have happened in the 21st century.

[Consul Napoleon Bonaparte]

Are intentionally controversial threads your speciality? I think more important things have happened in the 21st century.

You again. Here we go then.

In the original post, there was no request for discussion, as you have yet again assumed. The thread was more of a survey to see what the Total War Center Users prefer.

Of course more has happened. More has happened in two-thousand years than wondering about the chicken and the egg, as well.

Any more comments you wish to add?

[Crazyeyesreaper]

PC i have no issues with Apple some of there software is amazing and is just plan awesome but in terms of security across all there platforms they are weak, in terms of gaming they are weaker than even Linux sure steam is on Mac OSX but sadly Apple controlls the Open GL updates for the OS and Steve Jobs made it clear Open GL only gets compatibility updates NOT performance updates thus most games run like crap on Mac and there is no fix unless Apple fixes it. On top of this sofware incompatibilities and the requiring of me to install bootcamp and dual boot windows makes the Macs irrelevant

I can do EVERYTHING on a PC or i can do some work on a Mac boot up Windows and finish said work.

Overall for just web browsing and watching videos aka typical user i prefer Linux namely Ubuntu

[Colossus]

In the original post, there was no request for discussion

Who do you prefer and why?

Err...

You could make a poll though. I said it because this is just the classic example of a thread that turns into an argument. I've seen some forums where they get automatically locked! I think it's safe to say people will prefer what they use.

[Phier]

I actually have a friend, who works with computers ever day, who is very intelligent, who used to PC game, who is a complete Macophillie.

I think for some its a disease of sorts.

[karamazovmm]

I dont really care, I own a mbp. I will probably own another (come to papa you silly RMBP 13). I do have several complaints:

1) Price (depends on the mac, the MBAs and the iMacs are actually not badly priced, however the rest of the ecosystem its just awfully priced )
2) Warranty (no NBD and no ACD)
3) Materials choice (my thinkpads are like tanks, drop mac and mac a dent, I know I dropped mine once)
4) driver updates (they come to fix stability not improve performance, I hate that policy of if it aint broke dont fix it, its seriously backwards, by that I would still be using a horse to go to work )
5) Limitations on the EFI, I can only have 5 partitions
6) Poor driver implementation on windows and linux
7) No switchable gpus in windows or linux

Regarding security they are actually fine, better than windows, and on the same level of linux. There are free antivirus for mac now, and given how structured the permissions are, the exploits need to find something that they can actually elevate the permission without user interaction, those are usually the toughest ones to find and to exploit.

I do have several complaints against PCs as well, but this is for another time.

[Crazyeyesreaper]

I dont really care, I own a mbp. I will probably own another (come to papa you silly RMBP 13). I do have several complaints:

1) Price (depends on the mac, the MBAs and the iMacs are actually not badly priced, however the rest of the ecosystem its just awfully priced )
2) Warranty (no NBD and no ACD)
3) Materials choice (my thinkpads are like tanks, drop mac and mac a dent, I know I dropped mine once)
4) driver updates (they come to fix stability not improve performance, I hate that policy of if it aint broke dont fix it, its seriously backwards, by that I would still be using a horse to go to work )
5) Limitations on the EFI, I can only have 5 partitions
6) Poor driver implementation on windows and linux
7) No switchable gpus in windows or linux

Regarding security they are actually fine, better than windows, and on the same level of linux. There are free antivirus for mac now, and given how structured the permissions are, the exploits need to find something that they can actually elevate the permission without user interaction, those are usually the toughest ones to find and to exploit.

I do have several complaints against PCs as well, but this is for another time.

really better than windows i dont want to be mean but have to been under a rock? Mac is the least secure platform period and most apple services are easily hacked these days if you can find someones last 4 digits of there credit card which apparently from Amazon is pretty easy to get. Overall Macs are more vulnerable there own security feature of note is lower market penetration compared to PCs which is slowly changing.

As for the Retina MBP its nice but utter crap it doesnt properly run the screen resolution they were advertising unless you use third party hacks to enable it lol. Most not trying to insult but considering how bad Apple's security record is and the quiet withdrawal of there Macs dont get viruses rhetoric its rather funny.

In all honesty other than the stability over performance BS Security is the BIGGEST issue i have with Macs.

Things to come to mind

OSX/Crisis commerical malware
Battery hacking which a hacker can use to physically damage mac books was hilarious
Gizmodo Editor Hacked http://www.emptyage.com/post/2867987...as-hacked-hard
Flash Back Trojan infecting 500K Apple PCs http://www.legitreviews.com/news/12787/
1 in 5 Macs Have malware which can make the leap to a Windows PC http://legitreviews.com/news/12949/

This from a company that until recently said there computers didnt get viruses, and told users actively to NOT run anti virus software. Sorry simple fact is this year has not been kind to Apple and there secruity flaws

Major firms like Kaspersky suspect that Apple is nearly 10 years behind Windows in terms of security overall, granted i feel thats BS and its closer to 5 years but it all depends on the integration of OSes across all platforms aka

Windows 8 Phone Windows 8 and Windows RT all being linked via cloud etc with various features will probably face all new security issues same goes for Apple and there software / systems the more integrated and invested into a single account you are the greater probability of a crippling hack.

Simple put the more the gap narrows http://www.legitreviews.com/news/13581/ the more Apple's security flaws will be exploited.

In general a SMART user will have little to no issue but the generic computer using masses never seem to be able to stay out of trouble evidence people like me have jobs fixing the damage they cause lol.

everything else in your list i pretty much agree with to varying degrees

[karamazovmm]

Long post fair warning

snip

Then I must have learned everything wrong in my OS classes, the kernel is great.

BTW try to hack a server using OSX, I dare you try it.

In terms of security features, as in, anti virus or security suites that are provided by apple, there are none. And in this they lose absurdly.

Regarding patches, they have similar response time to MS, that means, depending on the level of the threat itself they either take a few days (see that same exploit that you linked using java, not OSX, java, I could throw the same argument about the exploit that was literally for years using adobe reader for windows and several 0 day exploits), to a few months. I cant comment on linux, since nobody makes viruses for it, and its based on low level hacks, i.e. root kits that prey on the user or subroutines, those are usually aimed at servers, not the end user.

There is a great thing about linux, you dont have to worry about virus, just like macs once did, now on the latter you do have to worry. I used an anti virus, I dropped it, and make sure that Im always patched up.

Regarding integration, yes it brings problems, iOS and OSX share a lot of things, it can be used for exploits, since it was used last year on iOS to OSX hack. I dont even wanna know how MS is going to deal with that, being in 90% of pcs is problematic (1% of users is statistically irrelevant, its margin of error, Oh god Im user of linux Im a margin of error ), it raises awareness to the platform, thus creating more and more people looking for an exploit.

I do know that MS launched a security patch, that even before it hit the channel was already hacked, exposition is problematic.

Interesting on the hack that allows you to use a 3840*2400 res, there are some power users on apple notebooks, I have tried this one today in an apple reseller here in SP, I licked the screen a lot, super crisp, super sharp, on 1920*1200, didnt had the app with me. I was extremely unsatisfied that the damn RMBP was glued to the desk, I would like to see the weight in my hands.

I find it funny that some have no idea that Apple doesn't make the GPU or Processor. Essentially Mac users are getting ripped off from the shell and OS. Because something is more expensive does not mean it is better. I am worried about some things though, Steve Jobs apparently has burned into the average person's head that does not know much about Computers that MACs are better.

Depends, there is a premium market out there, thats the one that apple aims for, thus it build things accordingly.

Lets throw some comparisons:
Evaluation measures: keyboard, warranty, build quality, touchpad

X230 VS MBP 13 - wins x230 in all accounts except the touchpad, they are similar in price

W530 VS Y580 - wins w530 in all accounts, including display and for some the nipple. The W530 costs around 500 more

X1 carbon VS MBA - wins x1 carbon in on almost all accounts except the SSD if you are smart and got a 256gb MBA model since it uses a samsung 830

MSI GE 60 VS Y580 - tie, the msi is cheaper

RMBP and MBP 15 VS XPS 15 - wins RMBP and MBP 15, it doesnt have throttling issues, while packing a better keyboard, a extremely superior touchpad and a better gpu. Both are much more expensive.

RMBP and MBP 15 VS envy 15 - wins RMBP and MBP 15, better build quality while packing a better keyboard and a extremely superior touchpad. Arguably both have a better gpu

MSI GT 70 and Clevo P170em VS AW m17x R4 - tie, both have abysmal touchpads, both pack the same guts, while the msi and the clevo are cheaper, if you dont haggle with dell, that is. There is also a tie, between the keyboard from the m17x and the gt 70, the clevo hides in the corner in shame.

I've made one unfair comparison the w530 VS y580, it was a consumer VS enterprise class hardware. Cheaper doesnt always means a smart buy.

I bought a vaio z2 (U$2.2k), kept it for about a month, sold it. I bought a vaio SA (got a promotion U$900), kept it for a week sold it. I bought a msi ex 625 (bought in brazil, doesnt count in terms of price), kept it for 2.5 years until the gpu goes kaput.


Price is on the eyes of which one of the buyers.

Would be good buys:

vaio Z3

- terrible keyboard
- terrible touchpad
- Lacks thunderbolt, a real one, not that test USB implementation they used
- Great speed due to the quad and the RAID 0 quad SSD
- Awesome screen 92% aRGB with great viewing angles, its better than most desktop monitors
- High price, though its actually cheaper than the z2
- Great weight

X230

- Good enough screen, can be better with higher res and better gamut, not light bleeding, nor retention, and better color accuracy
- Lacks thunderbolt
- Touchpad sucks
- Awesome keyboard
- Awful touchpad

Now regarding apple hardware:

iMac

- Good price compared to the competition
- Usually better internals even outdated
- Better cooling than the more pronounced competition i.e. those dells all in one
- Lacks hardware of this year, the 680m, the 660m are itching to get in there.

Mac Pro

- Great case
- Great custom mobo
- Terrible for hardware changes
- Extremely outdated
- Outrageous price

MBPs

- Good internals
- Custom mobos, they are mouth watering to look, now the MBA and the RMBP come with ARM processors due to ML new functionality
- Terrible Price
- Good build quality

MBA

- Good internals
- Good price
- Good build quality
- Gets more rights than the competition, for example the asus UX31 lacks a good keyboard, terrible touchpad, still has troubles with the wi fi, packs an awesome screen good build quality. Samsung series 9 packs a good screen, lacks a good keyboard, terrible touchpad, still has troubles with the wi fi, good build quality, both pack a sandforce based SSD that is slower than the 256gb and up that apple offers, being those samsung 830. And the samsung is more expensive than the apple.

Mac mini

- Good enough HTPC
- Good enough HTPC
- Good enough HTPC
- Does it have another use? Aside being a Good enough HTPC?
- A yes! its one of the cheapest apple hardware that you can buy, and its tiny, awesomely tiny.
- Mixed price, if its the base model, its actually not bad, if its the higher end model, its not good.
- Outdated hardware, a 640m LE (kepler please), would be a great fit in there.

I do prefer to buy enterprise class hardware, I WILL PAY more, I WILL RECEIVE more, with the same guts (strange huh?). For example I was with a friend from work, she is just absent minded, more than I (incredible), she left the bag with my thinkpad x301 on the hood, I ran over the goddamn bag. Called lenovo, they sent me another machine in 3 days. I had her buy 2 cellphones though, since they were equally smashed, incredibly nothing blew up.

There was a problem with the power daughter board in the replacement, it started 6 months latter I received the unit, called lenovo, they sent the guy with a daughter board, replaced it in the next day.

My dream machine is a 13''

CPU: i5-i7 ivy
GPU: 640m GDDR5
SSD: 256gb
Display: Sharp IGZO 2560*1600p
Warranty: 3-5 years, NBD + ACD
Ports: 2 USB3 (dont use more than one though), HDMI, thunderbolt
Battery: 75wh, runtime of 7-10h
OS: dont care, given that I can install windows on it, I need for work (there is no trader platform for OSX in brazil) and for visual studio, given that adobe CS6 is running better on windows as well, I think I will drop its use on OSX (yes Im not actually blind)
Touchpad: if the x1 carbon can do it, I hope that other OEMs make decent touchpads like apple does.

If anyone makes this I buy it. Im not even going to think, Im going to buy it. I almost imported the LG P330 from korea, but the SSD compatibility list is pretty nasty and the res is abysmal.

I will post the nagging issues that I have with PC notebooks in another post

[Bolkonsky]

I actually have a friend, who works with computers ever day, who is very intelligent, who used to PC game, who is a complete Macophillie.

I think for some its a disease of sorts.

Same here. I cannot figure it out. I've bought and owned both. It's no contest. Maybe some people are just ignorant to good PCs

Sent from my SGH-T499

[irishron]

PC all the way until Steve Ballmer turns into Steve Jobs and I go Linux of which I don't think is far off.

[vinh834]

I find it funny that some have no idea that Apple doesn't make the GPU or Processor. Essentially Mac users are getting ripped off from the shell and OS. Because something is more expensive does not mean it is better. I am worried about some things though, Steve Jobs apparently has burned into the average person's head that does not know much about Computers that MACs are better.

[Bolkonsky]

lol, @Crazy, you mention the battery hacking, I remember reading an article about some guy freaking out because someone hacked it while he was resting it on his lap, and kaboom.

I guess he's not having kids.

[the_mango55]

If you love PC gaming, which I do, then the discussion is a nonstarter. PC is simply the only option. And yes I know you can install windows on Macs these days, but that's extra cost for the OS and Mac video cards are generally not ideal for serious gaming.

If you don't care about gaming however, there is one (and only one as far as I can tell) mac that can hold its own and even be considered a good value against its PC competition. That is the Macbook Air.

If, for whatever reason, you need an extremely tiny notebook, the MBA is priced competitively enough with PC "ultrabooks" that it's probably worth getting over the PC variants.

[Huberto]

Personally, I've hated Apple computers since the 90s when I was forced to use one for work. But it's really over the last ten years that the Apple brand has become unbearable thanks to its mushrooming arrogance, which reminds me a lot of Microsoft back in its day.

And yes, people are always incredulous when I tell them that Apple computers have the same components as PCs. They really have internalized the Apple B.S. marketing message.

[vinh834]

Personally, I've hated Apple computers since the 90s when I was forced to use one for work. But it's really over the last ten years that the Apple brand has become unbearable thanks to its mushrooming arrogance, which reminds me a lot of Microsoft back in its day.

And yes, people are always incredulous when I tell them that Apple computers have the same components as PCs. They really have internalized the Apple B.S. marketing message.

I have a friend that once said, "My Mac is awesome I will never have to upgrade anything it in my lifetime"

Presently, he admits that MACs are made for "idiots"

[karamazovmm]

I have a friend that once said, "My Mac is awesome I will never have to upgrade anything it in my lifetime"

Presently, he admits that MACs are made for "idiots"

oh wait! we are not using power pc cpus anymore? How IBM is surviving without apple?

[Bolkonsky]

oh wait! we are not using power pc cpus anymore? How IBM is surviving without apple?

Xbox 360 and PS3.

Is it a good idea to ask this on a forum that is dedicated to PC gaming specifically Total War? To my knowledge Total War doesn't market for Mac games (though I suppose you could run it with some tech know how).

You are hardly going to get reasonable results here I think.

Sure you're gonna get reasonable results. This is an intelligent forum with lots of intelligent people. Also, RTW is now available on Mac.

[MarcoRossolini]

Is it a good idea to ask this on a forum that is dedicated to PC gaming specifically Total War? To my knowledge Total War doesn't market for Mac games (though I suppose you could run it with some tech know how).

You are hardly going to get reasonable results here I think.