Acceptable Levels of Corruption

[Plan C]

Strange days, a bizarrely frank statement from a government official about ethics of public work.

The man tells it like it is:

"If you work hard, you can steal a little, but don't behave like bandits," the Press Trust of India quoted Yadav as saying at the meeting in Etah town, about 124 miles from capital Lucknow.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-a-little.html

Corruption is apparently a top issue in India and the minister quoted is uncle to state chief minister elected on "anti-corruption platform".

Can the public stomach this degree of realism? Is this sort of "honesty" indicative of pragmatism or flawed ethics? Discuss.

[Menelik_I]

Sometimes even the voters are themselves corrupt, politicians don't grow up from vacuum, they emerge from the general population pool and in this case the minister might be right if it turns out that a big chunk of Indian electors are themselves wannabe corrupts.

[Thorn777]

Sometimes even the voters are themselves corrupt, politicians don't grow up from vacuum, they emerge from the general population pool and in this case the minister might be right if it turns out that a big chunk of Indian electors are themselves wannabe corrupts.

Yes they do. I have been allot around the spheres where power weilds in Berlin. Around their offices, their bars, their hotels, the cars and staff they get, and so on. Its another world they enter, and they will meet allot of people with money thinking they are important all of a sudden. And my bet is Washington is allot worse.

[Qasper]

India is corrupt. Totally, imho.

Next stage for India -> whatever!... it's an internal Indian issue.

There are over 1 billion Indians... let them do their thing. There are simply at least some non-idiots! The "west" seems to have a shrinkage of them though!


PS: Indian philosophy is among the best in the world - perhaps even the best! It's the base of Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta, and the home of wise men/women as eg. Ramana Maharshi...

[Simon Cashmere]

I had an Indian taxi driver tell me that he had the fortune of having a corrupt Indian politician in the cab on holiday from India in Australia. He said he told him what he thought of him, and how corrupt he was. He said that if he had said the same thing to him in India, he would have immediately been arrested. The police in India are used as the shock troops for corrupt politicians, rounding up journalists, and anyone else inconvenient. So it is very dangerous to take on corruption in India, you soon find yourself in the slammer with all manner of charges brought against you.

[hellheaven1987]

It is India, what do you expect?

Mexico is another good example.

[Vanoi]

It is India, what do you expect?

Mexico is another good example.

Difference is that in Mexico, they will kill you. Preferably with your head being chopped off.

[Grouchio]

It is India, what do you expect?

Mexico is another good example.

It seems that India shall be needing some population regulations soon...
Because from what you people have said, Indians are corrupt in general.
...................

[Denny Crane!]

Woops look like we upset a nationalist here ^^^^

Corruption is endemic in the political and business society of India and it is seen as accepted so these comments aren't particularly shocking. There would need to be a really strong drive either top down or bottom up to root out corruption and the perception of corruption to change this and it would be a years long process that would probably require significant structural changes.

[Qasper]

Woops look like we upset a nationalist here ^^^^

Corruption is endemic in the political and business society of India and it is seen as accepted so these comments aren't particularly shocking. There would need to be a really strong drive either top down or bottom up to root out corruption and the perception of corruption to change this and it would be a years long process that would probably require significant structural changes.

India will be - that's only me prediction though - for the next 30 decades (at least) a corrupt country.

Denny, I wonder how you distilled some 'Indian nationalism' from my above post - if you were at all refering to my post, that is.

[Plan C]

Ok then, it seems that corruption is endemic in India and probably in a great many other developing countries. Fair enough. We all are somewhat aware, though that instances of bureaucrats yielding to temptation are not uncommon in developed countries - UK, US, Italy, Spain, Japan , whatever.

We know they are all human so corruption is inevitable. The question is, would it be any different if we accepted this as just another aspect of public life?

[Qasper]

Ok then, it seems that corruption is endemic in India and probably in a great many other developing countries. Fair enough. We all are somewhat aware, though that instances of bureaucrats yielding to temptation are not uncommon in developed countries - UK, US, Italy, Spain, Japan , whatever.

We know they are all human so corruption is inevitable. The question is, would it be any different if we accepted this as just another aspect of public life?

The question is: What do the Indians think?

Living in the US, Europe or China, Indian corruption can be very beneficial.. simply bribe a governour or some official and voila! ...the deal is done (to the expense of the Indian people as a whole).

But also or more civil investors won't invest in India, and the local businesses won't be able to thrive properly, as there's no set of basic rules for all... eg. corrupt officials demanding this and that, and favouring their family and friends.

So if you wan't to start an IT business or the like, why not go to Singapore? In India you might split on the corruption-rock?!

[ivan_the_terrible]

What Westerners consider corruption is the norm in Asia (and parts of Europe). You can call it what you want but it's just a part of life. It's certainly not possible to get rid of it in the part of Asia I come from originally. I'm willing to bet it's the same with India.

[Simon Cashmere]

What Westerners consider corruption is the norm in Asia (and parts of Europe). You can call it what you want but it's just a part of life. It's certainly not possible to get rid of it in the part of Asia I come from originally. I'm willing to bet it's the same with India.

They said the same thing about Hong Kong, but in the 1980s they brought in ICAC - the Independent Commission Against Corruption, and they jailed a lot of people so that corruption is far less common in Hong Kong than anywhere else in Asia.

Corruption can be stopped you just have to have the will of the people to do it, and some courageous leaders backed by the Police and the Military. It's hard though, really hard - in Mexico the fight against drugs and the corruption it causes is basically a civil war where tens of thousands of people have died. I don't believe in defeatism or that corruption is inevitable, it isn't. But trying to be 'Serpico' is really really hard, and in some places impossible if it puts your safety at risk.

Say for example, I go through Indonesian customs, and the customs officer asks me a white guy for a bribe. Now, if I don't pay that bribe - I'll be arrested on some trumped up charge, perhaps drugs will be 'found' in my luggage, and I will rot in an Indonesian jail cell, and then be brought before an angry Indonesian judge who admonishes me for bringing the scourge of drugs to fair Indonesia. Drugs carries the death penalty, at the very least a very long prison sentence. If worse than that, I try to accuse the Indonesian customs officer of seeking a bribe, I'd be charged with making a false allegation against a public official, probably beaten within an inch of my life or perhaps beaten to death in custody. So most foreigners, would just pay.

[Morbius Sire]

What Westerners consider corruption is the norm in Asia (and parts of Europe). You can call it what you want but it's just a part of life. It's certainly not possible to get rid of it in the part of Asia I come from originally. I'm willing to bet it's the same with India.

I agree.
India holds a different standards/system than the most nations in either europe or north america. They have corruption issues, but their system has been working for them for a long time now.

[Bobz]

I agree.
India holds a different standards/system than the most nations in either europe or north america. They have corruption issues, but their system has been working for them for a long time now.

Their system has been working? Hardly. The massive corruption in India is considered a major problem by most Indians, and it's been holding back development in the country for years now.

[Morbius Sire]

Their system has been working? Hardly. The massive corruption in India is considered a major problem by most Indians, and it's been holding back development in the country for years now.

Considering their GDP is the 11th highest in the world, and they have had a very strong growth rate in the past decade.[1] Development isn't a big issue, especially with recent reforms.

Following these strong economic reforms, and a strong focus on developing national infrastructure such as the Golden Quadrilateral project by Atal Bihari Vajpayee the then Prime Minister the country's economic growth progressed at a rapid pace with very high rates of growth and large increases in the incomes of people

[1]

Note, I am not saying their situation is the best it can be, no. But it is improving. India is a developing country on the right track. Their system and standards are working, have been for a long time.

[Condottiere 40K]

It's a cultural issue, and can take many forms.

You could say that nepotism is a form of corruption, and so is gaining more favourable treatment through networking.

Specific to bureaucracy, you actually want the best candidates who could efficiently administrate society, but that also includes compensating them adequately for their service and providing sufficient deterrence against illegal behaviour.

[flota]

Difference is that in Mexico, they will kill you. Preferably with your head being chopped off.

They chop your head off if you mess with the narcos
Look how in the recent elections everyone denounced peña nieto for his corruption and stupidity
People know who is corrupt... People just doesnt care
its a cultural thing... If you grow up hearing that you can steal while in office and no one does anything about it... Ergo its fine if i steal = mexican government

Sent from Holy Terra using CM10 by epinter for Atrix

[Plan C]

Corruption happens everywhere. Would it ever be possible to turn a blind eye to a, presently unquantified, level of corruption which we know also exists in western societies? Could we accept the whole "steal a little but don't behave like a bandit" line of reasoning in the west?

If not, why?