Aryanism: Hitlers wet dream or ghost story ?

[Kapitan_brad]

First of all, I'd like to say this is my first post on this site, but i have been following it closely for the last two years (mods, news, ect.)


I have been thinking lately about my own physical features: Blonde, blue eyed, detached earlobes, and the natural ability to roll my tongue. I have done some reading up on the "Aryan" race; now more commonly known as the "indo-european" race. I, personally, believe that this particular race developed either in the region currently occupied by Iran, or further north-west just west of the Black sea.

My opinion is just that, so i thought i'd start out with some other peoples opinions first . Chiefly the most famous of them: Adolph hitler. He explained Aryanism as Blue eyed, blonde haired fair complexion that came arose from probably Germania, and called it the perfect race because he claimed they thrived whenever they were "pure". He tried to push for an Aryan state, which in and of itself, i do not believe is wrong. However he went about it the completely wrong way: He committed genocide against what he called an "inferior race". Personally i think he was jealous of their prosperity in teh face of continuing adversity. The Jews had been persecuted for . . . well, as long as they had existed. But really were the Jews any better ? I dont mean to bash Semitism, or sound like a nazi, but the Jews themselves are guilty for Gnocide of the Philistine race. While i dont personally trust the source (bible), and havent even read it personally, I feel as though the white wolf in the flock of sheep was getting bleated.

But i digress, that is my opinion again. My point is that Racial persecution will happen in ALL times. regardless of "tolerance". Evidence of this is "discouragement" of inter-racial marriage, or religious "preference". Or when races start intermarrying, hardcore rascists claim that they are both trying to end their race.

But really what does it matter ? we are all JUST human. and witht eh exception of a single Jew born in the first century BC, we are not going to get LESS of what we are by marrying another human.

I do agree that some traits are more attractive than others within some humans. but thats JUST personal preference. Im sure some people agree with my when i say i like Red headed, blue eyed, pail skinned girls more than darker toned, brown eyed, black haired girls (or guys, your call there).

anyways some interesting, controvercial reading on the subject will be in the following post by me in the form of links. here is one now:http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_269.html
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

http://www.geocities.com/aryannews/aryantruth.htm

http://www.skrewdriver.net/slav.html

http://www.wisdomworld.org/additiona...AryanRace.html

http://www.straight-talk.net/evolution/hit.htm

W/e your opinion on these websites, remember they probably werent written by rhode-island scholars.

Double post merged. Please use the edit button - imb39

[Kaweh]

As far as I know, "Aryan" is old persian, and means "pure-born" or something like that. The people who came to the Iranian Plateau called themselves "Aryan", and there are a few theories on what that word meant and such. Persian Kings (from Cyrus I on, if I'm not mistaken) called themselves "King Of Kings, a Persian, an Aryan etc. (e.g. Darius, inscriptions in Persepolis). Aryan was also a priest status in Zoroastrism (Persian state religion), it was given at it could be taken.

Even the name "Iran" has "Aryan" roots: It's the short form of "Eranshar", which means "Land Of the Aryans". Also the region of Iran was in antique times known as "Aryana".

Well, this were quite a few facts, which I remember reading somewhere, they may be true, they may be wrong. But one thing they are for sure: Utterly unimportant.

Why? Because there's only one race, the human race. That said by an "Aryan" (since I have Persian lineage).

K.K

[MaximiIian]

Even the name "Iran" has "Aryan" roots: It's the short form of "Eranshar", which means "Land Of the Aryans". Also the region of Iran was in antique times known as "Aryana".

Correct. In addition, one of the titles of the Iranian Emperor was "Light of the Aryans", or "Aryamehr".

Why? Because there's only one race, the human race.

Aye! Menschheit, Vorwärts!

[Kapitan_brad]

Im glad my thread is doing so well. But for the sake of argument, i was referring to "race" as in Physical features, not genetic differences. The fact we are all human quashes any racial argument out there.

And im positive that it IS true that if you get a group of people with common features, Stick them in an isolated enviroment closer to nature than my present North american lifestyle, Than you would probably have a seperate species to deal with in a few million years.



In fact, we did at one time: Cro magnon and "Neanderthal". I havent kept up witht eh scientific journals lately, but i believe they are still claiming Neanderthals were both real and NOT compatible with Cro Magnons. I was trying to say that if these two species continued to develope either interacting but NOT mating with eachother, BUT not killing eachother off, than we may very well have had two very distinct species of human in the world: as distinct a difference as the European culture was from Pre-columbian America.

Im not trying to push any superficial differences. I like to think humans get bored easily. why else would we migrate, intermate, and create "new" cultures ? (joking, btw)

[Gwendylyn]

In fact, we did at one time: Cro magnon and "Neanderthal". I havent kept up witht eh scientific journals lately, but i believe they are still claiming Neanderthals were both real and NOT compatible with Cro Magnons. I was trying to say that if these two species continued to develope either interacting but NOT mating with eachother, BUT not killing eachother off, than we may very well have had two very distinct species of human in the world: as distinct a difference as the European culture was from Pre-columbian America.

Its more an issue of the species competing with each other for food sources rather than killing each other off. One was (iirc) superior in that ability than the other, causing the disappearance of the lesser. You might have meant that, but your post had me imagining neanderthals and cro magnons waging war against each other. If food source weren't an issue, then yes, we could have had two disctinct humanoid species. Unfortunately, our population growth wouldhave necessitated that sort of competition and natural selection.

[Kapitan_brad]

Well i never staed that they would wage war on eachother, merely "eake" the other out of its spot either by territorial "occupance", taking the food sources from them by claiming rights to a certain tribe, or just being able to breed faster and therefore consume more food

[Darth Wong]

But really what does it matter ? we are all JUST human. and witht eh exception of a single Jew born in the first century BC, we are not going to get LESS of what we are by marrying another human.

Personally, I've always suspected that racial supremacists are just insecure. That insecurity leads them to seek validation in external sources of pride that cannot be taken away from them and require no accomplishments on their part as individuals. Racial "heritage" is one such source of empty pride.

Real pride comes from that which you accomplish yourself in life as an individual, but if you lack that, then I suppose taking pride in something like "racial heritage" or "purity of blood" works as a hollow substitute.

You can see this insecurity when you read white-supremacist websites. They are terrified of interracial marriage because "it will dilute the purity of our race". If the race is not "pure", then this cheap source of pseudo-pride won't be "pure" either, and that terrifies them.

[Kaweh]

Personally, I've always suspected that racial supremacists are just insecure. That insecurity leads them to seek validation in external sources of pride that cannot be taken away from them and require no accomplishments on their part as individuals. Racial "heritage" is one such source of empty pride.

Real pride comes from that which you accomplish yourself in life as an individual, but if you lack that, then I suppose taking pride in something like "racial heritage" or "purity of blood" works as a hollow substitute.

You can see this insecurity when you read white-supremacist websites. They are terrified of interracial marriage because "it will dilute the purity of our race". If the race is not "pure", then this cheap source of pseudo-pride won't be "pure" either, and that terrifies them.

I totally agree with what DarthWong said. Insecure humans allways try to find something infereior they can look down to so they feel better and stronger.

K.K

[VaeVictis]

First of all, I'd like to say this is my first post on this site, but i have been following it closely for the last two years (mods, news, ect.)


I have been thinking lately about my own physical features: Blonde, blue eyed, detached earlobes, and the natural ability to roll my tongue. I have done some reading up on the "Aryan" race; now more commonly known as the "indo-european" race. I, personally, believe that this particular race developed either in the region currently occupied by Iran, or further north-west just west of the Black sea.

My opinion is just that, so i thought i'd start out with some other peoples opinions first . Chiefly the most famous of them: Adolph hitler. He explained Aryanism as Blue eyed, blonde haired fair complexion that came arose from probably Germania, and called it the perfect race because he claimed they thrived whenever they were "pure". He tried to push for an Aryan state, which in and of itself, i do not believe is wrong. However he went about it the completely wrong way: He committed genocide against what he called an "inferior race". Personally i think he was jealous of their prosperity in teh face of continuing adversity. The Jews had been persecuted for . . . well, as long as they had existed. But really were the Jews any better ? I dont mean to bash Semitism, or sound like a nazi, but the Jews themselves are guilty for Gnocide of the Philistine race. While i dont personally trust the source (bible), and havent even read it personally, I feel as though the white wolf in the flock of sheep was getting bleated.

But i digress, that is my opinion again. My point is that Racial persecution will happen in ALL times. regardless of "tolerance". Evidence of this is "discouragement" of inter-racial marriage, or religious "preference". Or when races start intermarrying, hardcore rascists claim that they are both trying to end their race.

But really what does it matter ? we are all JUST human. and witht eh exception of a single Jew born in the first century BC, we are not going to get LESS of what we are by marrying another human.

I do agree that some traits are more attractive than others within some humans. but thats JUST personal preference. Im sure some people agree with my when i say i like Red headed, blue eyed, pail skinned girls more than darker toned, brown eyed, black haired girls (or guys, your call there).

anyways some interesting, controvercial reading on the subject will be in the following post by me in the form of links. here is one now:http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_269.html

Just some FYI, red hair and green eyes have been proven to be more rare than blonde hair and blue eyes.

If someone wants to be proud of that, it doesn't bother me one bit.

That does not make me feel inferior.

As far as the "Aryan" race is concerned, they were allegedly the Proto-Europeans which all modern Europeans are descended from. Persians speak Farsi, which is considered a Proto-European dialect. I have read that Hitler did many excavations in Greece trying to link the Greeks to the "Aryans".

I remember hearing that Freddie Mercury was of Persian decent of the Zoroastrian Magi that fled Persia to India after the Islamic conquests of the middle ages.

I , personally, am of French(Cajun), German, and Spanish decent and am very proud of my heritage. If that makes me seem "insecure" to you, that is your opinion. If that makes someone think I automatically "hate" and want to kill others,that is their loss.

[Kaweh]

I , personally, am of French(Cajun), German, and Spanish decent and am very proud of my heritage. If that makes me seem "insecure" to you, that is your opinion. If that makes someone think I automatically "hate" and want to kill others,that is their loss.

From what you said, you don't seem to be "insecure" or "hating others and wanting to kill them". Dunno what made you think that.

It's not wrong to be proud of anything you like about yourselve, it only gets wrong when this makes you feel others are inferior.

K.K

[Darth Wong]

I , personally, am of French(Cajun), German, and Spanish decent and am very proud of my heritage.

Just so long as that's not the biggest source of pride in your life. Your biggest source of pride should always be your own accomplishments as an individual human being.

If that makes me seem "insecure" to you, that is your opinion.

I said racists are insecure. If you're not a racist, then it doesn't apply to you.

[Kapitan_brad]

I think being proud of your National heritage can be compared ROUGHLY to being proud of being of a certain "race", but its still a loose subject. Im proud of many things. Im proud to serve my queen in what capacity i can, and thusly my own nation, which is a Constitutional Monarchy. I am proud of being in my family, which has a LONG, and destinguished history. And im proud of being ME . . . . and beiong Aryan is part of me. I cant help it. If i were black, i'd be proud of being black. Not for what we have done "as a race", but because that is part of me

[God]

I think being proud of your National heritage can be compared ROUGHLY to being proud of being of a certain "race", but its still a loose subject.

I disagree. As you can see from my sig, I'm proud of being Italian. I'm also proud of being Welsh. If I were Japanese, French, Greek or anything I'd be proud of it. The difference is that I don't view my country as 'better' than another country.

[Cadmium77]

Piero Rossi's excellent Cite d'Isis, Vraie Histoire des Arabes really puts this entire issue to rest once and for all.

Semite and Arian were expressions first used by German philologists in the 1780's as part of their effort to create a model for history of language development. At no time were they intended to denote anything to do with race. And of course modern linguists of our day have long since superceded this rather ancient philologists models with terms and systems that are far more comprehensive and useful to them.

The NAZI's were an odd bunch...and Hitler was a theosophist for god's sake...or deeply influenced by Madame Blavatsky's nonsense...

Time to put all taht to rest. I mean, what does semite mean? That there were three tribes of men after the flood, that devolved from Noah? Shem, Ephraim and Ham? The Jews are Shemetic, the Negroes are Hametic and whites are Ephraimites? Can anyone take such a historical model seriously?

[Kaweh]

. . . . and beiong Aryan is part of me. I cant help it. If i were black, i'd be proud of being black. Not for what we have done "as a race", but because that is part of me

Aren't you English? So what makes you think you're Aryan? :hmmm: Not that it matters, all humans derive from little mammals...

K.K

[Kapitan_brad]

i dont think i made myself clear. But yes, i agree with your point as well, . . . . .God . . .

[Kaweh]

The word "Aryan" is very old (it's old Persian), but hadn't a racial meaning. The Nazis missused it you're right. And as I said, it's damn unimportant, if we want to know who our ancestors (sp) were: They were little mammals, who smell their chance once the dinosaurs were dead. Out of this tiny, ugly thingie, became the being we call human.

K.K

[Kapitan_brad]

i agree. Believing in these nonsenses doesnt do anyone any good. Buyt that brings me back to Physical features and preference. I guess i really mean to say

can you label a race ?


We've done it with blacks, Native Americans, Pacific Islanders, Jews, Latinos, Caucasions . . . and Aryans . . . . .really what gives US the right to make such superficial boundries. I have to admit they DO exist, but . . . . still . . .

[Kaweh]

Erm... No there's actually no racial difference, expect of the difference in looks, which are caused by living in another climate, eating other food. E.g., the genetical difference beetween an Asian and an African is smaller than the difference beetween two random Asians or two random Africans. Or two random Europeans.

The word "race" is obsolete, since there is only one, freaking, ugly, dumb, human race.

K.K

[Ldvs]

Personally, I've always been "shocked" when people use the term "race" when comparing humans. Most of our physical differences come from our adaptability to the environment. Therefore, for me the word "race" is irrelevant when applied to humans. I find nothing more stupid than someone saying he/she’s proud of his/her racial heritage (“I’m proud to be White/Aryan/whatever”). As Darth Wong said, if you can be proud of something, rather than your origins/country, it should be your accomplishments and daily behaviour.

As for Hitler's Aryans, having read "Mein Kampf" I can state his attempted demonstration of the Aryans' dominance is pathetic. In his whole book he takes this fact for granted and it comes in contradiction with what he says about ancient Greeks (when he talks about Culture). His metaphorical "demonstration" (he used animals) supposedly proving why the Aryans shouldn't mix with the other "races" is even more pathetic. For him, the concept of race is closely linked with the “blood”. He pushes this concept far and bases his Jews’ bashing on it. I was really surprised to read that he hated Jews not because they had a different religion, but because he considered them to be a “race”. What led him to this conclusion (apart from his readings in racist newspapers) was that the Jews favour “interracial” marriages (marriages between Jews, hence one of his many incoherences since everyone can become Jew, without being born so).Therefore he believed they did so in order to keep their blood “pure”.