Romans did not use slaves in the navy CA no slaves pls!!

[Destraex]

A number of posts here in this very forum point out that slaves were not used in the form of slave rowers in the roman navy or for the most part in any navy of the period. It appears that slave rowers were more a feature of later medieval navies.

Ben Hur and a few novels I have read depict slave rowers in Roman ships chained to decks and treated like scum. However it seems that the truth is that if their were slaves in the navy that they were freed before entering the navy.

Certainly chains do not seem to have been used and in fact rowers were expected to fight during boarding actions. Bit hard to do that chained!

So CA please please please get this right! No slaves.

[Humble Warrior]

What is the truth of this? I always assumed slaves for the most part, were used...

I`ll admit, probably from watching crappy Hollywood.

[General George S. Patton]

What is the truth of this? I always assumed slaves for the most part, were used...

I`ll admit, probably from watching crappy Hollywood.

Nope, all crew members where highly skilled professorial oarsmen

(after last time I better give a source)

So http://www.amazon.com/Warfare-Classi...+ancient+world

[Hanomean]

You change statements faster than a politician.

I don't really remember but does it even say whether the crews of ships are slaves or not in the first Rome?

[SirCymro]

Slaves were used in the Roman Navy as they were used in pretty much every major nations navy. Slaves were cheap, efficient and they had nothing to live for. They were treated well with fresh food and provisions and were often given better rations than the actual sailors. Don't forget that you were reading novels, which most likely exagerrate many points to give a more engrossing storyline.

However many books from historians do contradict one another, on the use of slaves. Yet the far more compelling ones with good evidence state that the majority of the ships crew were slaves or indeed ex-slaves. The fact was that the navy could not find any willing participants who would live in the conditions slaves live in and had to work as hard as they did, it was a mentally and physically draining occupation, therefore slaves were utilised.

There are some written records where slaves were not used instead the marines were, however just imagine the fighting condition they would be in after slogging 12 hours at the oars....they wouldn't be, so again slaves replaced Marines on the oars.

[Menumorut]

Slaves were used in the Roman Navy as they were used in pretty much every major nations navy. Slaves were cheap, efficient and they had nothing to live for. They were treated well with fresh food and provisions and were often given better rations than the actual sailors. Don't forget that you were reading novels, which most likely exagerrate many points to give a more engrossing storyline.

However many books from historians do contradict one another, on the use of slaves. Yet the far more compelling ones with good evidence state that the majority of the ships crew were slaves or indeed ex-slaves. The fact was that the navy could not find any willing participants who would live in the conditions slaves live in and had to work as hard as they did, it was a mentally and physically draining occupation, therefore slaves were utilised.

There are some written records where slaves were not used instead the marines were, however just imagine the fighting condition they would be in after slogging 12 hours at the oars....they wouldn't be, so again slaves replaced Marines on the oars.

well said!

Hmm from what I've read there was some confusion over how slaves were used in the navy across the Roman era. The most convincing argument that I follow is that slaves were used originally in earlier times, but by the imperial period when permanent fleets were established the regular ships used trained professional rowers who were far more experienced and could also be armed and assist the marines in boarding actions. Slaves could still be utilised but that was generally for emergencies when additional ships were required.

even more well said

[Fabricus]

I think it was Athens that did not use slaves for their navy, I always thought Rome did, but then I have no knowlege of Roman naval combat whatsoever.

[Bobz]

Hmm from what I've read there was some confusion over how slaves were used in the navy across the Roman era. The most convincing argument that I follow is that slaves were used originally in earlier times, but by the imperial period when permanent fleets were established the regular ships used trained professional rowers who were far more experienced and could also be armed and assist the marines in boarding actions. Slaves could still be utilised but that was generally for emergencies when additional ships were required.

[Red Hue]

Starting with the Athenians slaves were not used. The oarsmen in addition to giving all their skill and energy in preserving the ship and destroying the enemy were also expected to fight if they were boarded.

That is not a very good idea if you have 25 sailors and 200 oarsmen…giving them pointy sharp objects could be hazardous to your health.

When cannon came into fashion it was a little different. You might get away with rowers chained to a bench when guns are going off. But being boarded was still a gamble.

[Sol Invictus]

I have not read any accounts of Rome using slaves in their navies. Certainly not during the Punic Wars. Maybe to a limited degree during the Imperial Era in exchange for their freedom but that is just a guess.

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

Slaves as we saw them in Ben Hur were clearly not the common thing and we have no evdidences that slaves were used. For smaller Crews we have hints of a alexandrian crew in Haltern (Lupia, Germania) and fracments in ostia which give us a hint that a guild of the oarsman had to be foundet there, but the information are very rare. My personal opinion about the things i know is that we can not expect that the common roman citizen would be an oarsman, but a lot of allied cities in southern italy had such traditions and as the romans had the ability to use the talents of several people i think they would used them and put their soldiers on deck, like they used later the known alexandrian crews.

[douglas]

For most of the Greek and Roman eras, galleys were rowed by professional oarsmen. In times of evergencies slaves were sometimes used, but usually on promise of freedom for good performance. Slave rowers came to pass in the late Middle ages - as Europe gained enlightment!!!

[Slipz]

Rome did close to never use slaves as rowers in the navy. Just look it up.

[Petroniu]

So CA please please please get this right! No slaves.

You know, I don't understand your concern. In any of the TW games ships didn't had a slaves and sailors complex crew. There was always the nr of men on the ships and usually they were the sailors crew and that's it. Plus, it was never stated by CA that they will use slaves to represent the oarsmen in the navy so, again, I don't get your concern.

[Destraex]

I am afraid they will recreate the scene in ben hur using chains. I am also afraid that because ships used slaves that oarsmen cannot help defend the ship.
Also that slaves should not be paid and therefore not part of the cost of maintaining a fleet. Also afraid that CA will not reflect the ability and experience of crews correctly, thinking that they are just slaves being whipped to death etc etc

[Rasic]

Does it really matter? I mean, unless we are able to zoom into the inside of the ship.. even then could you really be able to pick out if the guys were slaves or not? I doubt they would make animations of some guy whipping dudes below deck.

[Timotheus]

What are you saying? Rome are itself built upon the whipped back of slaves! Of course the honorable romans used slaves in their fleets!

Do your history lesson mate

[General George S. Patton]

What are you saying? Rome are itself built upon the whipped back of slaves! Of course the honorable romans used slaves in their fleets!

Do your history lesson mate

Um... maybe you should check your history, yes the romans used slaves a lot, but for oarsmen was not one of them. see my previous post for the source

[DAVIDE]

After taking Cartagena, Scipio got five thousand slaves to serve as rowers (see Polybius).
Probably your sources are not that accurate, man

[Ludicus]

Indeed, the use of slaves during the second Punic War on both sides, particularly the Roman, is irrefutable.
Libourel, Jan M. "Galley Slaves in the Second Punic War"