Getting killed when chasing prisoners

[Strengelicher]

The last battle I fought was as the Portuguese in defence of Seville against a strong Moorish host, led by a ten-star Moorish general. I only barely beat them back (the Moorish bodyguard unit alone slaughtered about half my forces). When all of them routed (the screen popped up that I can end the battle), all that was left of my two general bodyguard units were the two generals. Well, since the Moors had given me quite some trouble, I wanted to hunt down as many prisoners as possible to get a pretty ransom. My two generals pursued the routing units, but suddenly one of them got killed. He vanished without the message of a general being killed appearing. However, after the battle he was dead (as I feared) and at the beginning of my next turn I got the message that he died heroically in a battle.

In countless battles I cannot recall anybody dying while pursuing routing enemies. Maybe it just always escaped my attention, as it never happened to a general before. Comments/thoughts?

[Rakoua]

Probably you left some of your missile units on fire at will and they tried to hit the unit your general was chasing, but accidentally killed him. Or he ran trough some stakes.

[TsarBG]

Probably you left some of your missile units on fire at will and they tried to hit the unit your general was chasing, but accidentally killed him. Or he ran trough some stakes.

^ This. As far as I know only FF can kill you when your enemy routs. Stakes probably not in this case because I don't think those factions can use stakes.

[Chazz1225]

let's just put the cards on the table, no cav no rout

[Maltacus]

Probably you left some of your missile units on fire at will and they tried to hit the unit your general was chasing, but accidentally killed him. Or he ran trough some stakes.

^ This. As far as I know only FF can kill you when your enemy routs. Stakes probably not in this case because I don't think those factions can use stakes.

First, it is slightly impolite to immediately assume that someone made a mistake like this without even asking anything to confirm it, such as if any missile troops were even present where the general fell.

Second, about the issue itself: Routing soldiers occasionally hit chasing ones. It occurs both in SS and CoW and I would not be surprised if it happens in other mods too. Light cavalry is usually the most vulnerable due to their low protection but even bodyguards and their generals can die of it, obviously. I don't know about the lack of message, it's too long since I experienced something like that.

A big issue in CoW 1.4.4 (haven't tried the latest) is routing units staying and fighting while "routing", rendering them impossible to target (!!!) . Something similar may be occuring in SS, perhaps a bug related to vanilla issues, when the routers suddenly strike back. I regularly find that routing enemy infantry is more dangerous to my light steppe riders than when unbroken (and that is long after all arrows have been used up and fire at will turned off).

[MortalCoil]

First, it is slightly impolite to immediately assume that someone made a mistake like this without even asking anything to confirm it, such as if any missile troops were even present where the general fell.

Second, about the issue itself: Routing soldiers occasionally hit chasing ones. It occurs both in SS and CoW and I would not be surprised if it happens in other mods too. Light cavalry is usually the most vulnerable due to their low protection but even bodyguards and their generals can die of it, obviously. I don't know about the lack of message, it's too long since I experienced something like that.

A big issue in CoW 1.4.4 (haven't tried the latest) is routing units staying and fighting while "routing", rendering them impossible to target (!!!) . Something similar may be occuring in SS, perhaps a bug related to vanilla issues, when the routers suddenly strike back. I regularly find that routing enemy infantry is more dangerous to my light steppe riders than when unbroken (and that is long after all arrows have been used up and fire at will turned off).

He was asking for help and two possible outcomes of why it could have happened were given. Helping another player on this forum solve a problem is far from impolite.

[Maltacus]

Helping out is polite. It is the immediate assumptions that the opening poster had made one of those mistakes that are not.

[TsarBG]

To be fair, these "impolite" assumptions are far from jumping to wild conclusions. If you have played TW games, you have most likely experienced FF. Since the post did not specificy in greater detail about the units used, etc. that was the first idea to come to mind.


In any case, this may or may not have been a glitch. There could have been a retreating unit of spearmen among those who weren't routing; I don't know. Did any other cavalry die while doing this? If not, that's most likely an odd one-off occurence.

[╬Ritterbruder╬]

Helping out is polite. It is the immediate assumptions that the opening poster had made one of those mistakes that are not.

wrong priorities ma' man

[Rakoua]

I wasn't assuming that he made a mistake (which I'm sure we all have done once or twice), just offering an explanation.
I've never seen routing units fighting back, unless they were surrounded and "fought to the death". That's another possibility, but extremely unlikely if he had only two generals chasing.

[╬Ritterbruder╬]

what might happen is that smaller leftover groups of routing enemies get fully encircles by an enemy unit and suddenly become 'fight to the death'
in this situation, cav can 'trip' (die by falling over them like in normal cav charges) over them, these events can be rather short, as when the cav moves further a few yards, the enemy becomes partially free again and retakes on routing.

It is not possible in SS for routing units to kill, so it's either that or FF (which is a mistake , oh noes (a virtual and insignificant one none the less ))

only in ETW and beyond can chasing units 'trip' over routing units

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

Im going to say that you must have chased the units near your walls and once you are close enough to them you "activate" the towers, which shoot and can cause FF sometimes, ive lost some good men like that when chasing routing units.

Also a little off topic, but has anyone ever tried to fix the annying chasing mechanics - once your cav gets close enough to actually make contact they only take down a few of the last men, then they just stop, if you are chasing a single unit it is ok, but if you have a large army routing you definetly want to take out as many as possible and you have to micro manage all the cav to efficiently capture as many of the routers as you can.

[Constantine XII]

This is no new for me.I have the same situation in any mod and in vanilla and always happens with mounted units while chasing routing units.At first i was WTF, but i got use to it.....I believe it is a glitch or a "hidden feature" of MTW2!!

[Strengelicher]

Thanks for the input. By the way, I do not feel offended if someone assumes I might have made a foolish mistake. Not everybody here knows that I am a Clausewitzian genius and never make mistakes on the battlefield. I forgive these people, as their intention was good and their spirit kind.

The general died while pursuing routing units still inside the settlement and he was far from the next wall, so I think the accidental watch tower fire can be ruled out. I did have missile units present (javelinmen), but they were all long out of javelins, so no friendly fire (or maybe a single one of them found a used javelin on the floor and thought "hey, I could pick that up and throw it after the fleeing enemy... here you go... WOOOFAH... oh-oh... didn't I see that horse rider before somewhere?"). There was no unit with stakes ability in the battle, hence the general's life was not "at stake" either.

I guess it must be true that routing units can somehow deal out the occasional strike back at their pursuers. Some of the feedback here seems to suggest that. Well, since the general was the last of his unit, he would have had to strike all the routers down himself, thus making much more "enemy contact" than in company of his bodyguard. I shall keep that in mind.

Thanks, guys.

[Chazz1225]

Well this happened to me yesterday my General died when i was routing prisoners from running into a stake and no in-battle message was shown, i don't think you should take damge for killing routers, just seems silly

[Delvecchio1975]

I had happen to myself occasionaly the exact same thing as happened to Strengelicher von Clausewitz. Like him, I am also a genius, and deduced that if your general dies on the battlefield, you get a drop-down message on the left-hand side of the screen for it. I didn't, but still, back on the campaign map, my general appears to be dead. The message there said that he died a heroic death, so he cannot have died from diarrhea in the 15 seconds the game was loading back onto the campaign map. Like in Strengelicher's case though, my general was very low on companions in his unit.

[Strengelicher]

Another genius. +rep.

[Paragon]

It also happens to me, but it's usually more about 150 guys sorrounding 10 and counting as fighting to the death than anything else.

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

The units fighting to the death never have killed anyone in my expirence, they just stop and stand there, makes an easier target.

[Chazz1225]

The units fighting to the death never have killed anyone in my expirence, they just stop and stand there, makes an easier target.

I guess you've never encountered Flemish Pikemen, they won't rout for nothing, even 100 to 1 they won't rout!