Greater Economy/Diplomacy importance?

**DanMLee88** · August 08, 2012, 07:52 PM

So, diplomacy in TW series usually gets a lot of flak - I always wondered why TW series could not implement a more in-depth diplomacy systems like those found in, say, civilization series (barring V), alpha centauri, or galactic civilizations.

Would it really be too much to expect CA to implement an in-depth system of diplomacy in TW game for once? As in, give 'trade' aspects of diplomacy a much greater depths. For example, trade nodes could be bargaining chips, as well as perhaps techs from trees, etc, and trading itself could represent bargaining positions between nations and tribes.

I believe the prime reason for lack of luster in diplomacy is that it is almost always easier just to rampage, and also that game is severely simplifying the economical and political aspects. In addition, the gains and depth of intrigue such as being able to shift balance of power and profits through diplomacy and economics is almost always overshadowed by power of force.

I know the series is centered around total war, but lack of options aside from just 'beat em up' really take away a lot from the experience of leading a nation/tribe. If CA could vastly improve the non-warfare aspect of running a nation and conducting policies, inner politics, and economics, it would add a great depth to game overall. To learn these things, perhaps CA could take a page out of other games. Of course, TW strength in majestic cinematic warfares and graphics is not something that should be sacrificed, but hopefully this aspect of the game is something that can be improved upon without too much sacrifice on parts of others.

If you recall, mods such as Stainless steel and roma surrectum all strove to add greater depth to aspects I have mentioned. I believe these non-eye candy but important portions add a great deal of substance to any experience in playing these kinds of games.

What are your thoughts?

Edit:

If you take but one look, CA seems to be understanding these things are worth looking into, as evidenced by greater political mechanisms in empire (voting, assigning political posts etc), appearance of trade nodes, trading retinues, and addition of tech trees etc. However, all these were more or less half-hearted attempts at adding individual 'blings' rather than centering around a substantial goal of forming non-warfare centered focus in the game that is of equal and just as enjoyable as warfare itself. Essentially, I would like CA to explore in greater depth other aspects of nation/tribe businesses including economics, diplomacy, etc rather than just 'build OMGWTF stacks of doom with shiny new weapons'.

**Guidrion** · August 08, 2012, 08:06 PM

I support a greater economic and diplomatic focus.

I would add something: Faction leader linked diplomatic stance. Basically, the faction maintains a normal diplomatic stance. However, any change of faction leader will change the diplomatic stance in conformity to its personality: peaceful/war-lover, honorable/traitorous, submissive/proud, etc.

Assassination could become quite more strategic to maintain alliance by suppressing the angry heir or to shatter an enemy alliance by getting rid of the honorable old daddy.

Heck, I'd pay twice the price if we could get something along the line of Crusader Kings II with Total War military campaigns and battle. A nerdy dream would be to have an economic/infrastructure system in addition as well done as the one in the Last Kingdom mod.
Come on, CA, go have a good chat with the Paradox guys!

**HusKatten** · August 09, 2012, 02:16 AM

I've suggested a feature which aims to make Trade more deep, interesting, and valuable. Its a very easy feature to implement, has historical validation and fits with the rome 2 formula: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=549799

**DanMLee88** · August 09, 2012, 02:19 AM

I would love this...really I would. Now I just have to satisfy my cravings with playing either galactic civ or Roma Surrectum.

**DanMLee88** · August 13, 2012, 08:05 PM

Can we merge all such thread together under one 'more economic and non-warfare depth' thread that would turn into a petition? All the separate threads suggesting improvement in individual elements can be classified under the same topic. We need what would be colloquially called 'Threadnaught' to gain their attention in these matters.

As I have said before, improvements such as tech trees, individual clan advantages and disadvantages, trade nodes, political systems, etc. are steps in the right directions, but are more or less half-hearted attempts at adding superficial elements instead of making a determined effort to really instill non-warfare based fundamental gameplay in the series. If CA can do this, it would add great deal of substance and depth to these games that have so much more potential than only focusing on cinematic battles (Which is GREAT, but not the only thing that makes up a great game).

I hope Jack Lusted or other CA staff active in these forums would take notice of these reasonable suggestions.

**HusKatten** · August 13, 2012, 08:42 PM

Such plans have been made by Ichon first of all, and i've tried to help. such a thread would be good for Jack and CA to lean back on to pick up Good suggestions that normaly would fall behind only to be replaced by nonsense threads. If CA samt to reach out to the fans, its probably demotivating for them to only see threads about dissappointment, fanboys and historical accuracies. They are probably after our ideas, and if we want them to keep their interest for us we bettet start making quality, not quantity.

**Ichon** · August 13, 2012, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by HusKatten

Such plans have been made by Ichon first of all, and i've tried to help. such a thread would be good for Jack and CA to lean back on to pick up Good suggestions that normaly would fall behind only to be replaced by nonsense threads.

I actually just started on that- I will need to edit it some more but I've got to go out for a bit now but hopefully we can get either moderators to merge some threads or pick 1 thread at the top of the list to continue the discussion on that topic.

**DiegoQuin** · August 13, 2012, 10:11 PM

I would add something: Faction leader linked diplomatic stance

**DanMLee88** · August 14, 2012, 07:22 AM

Is Jack Lusted directly involved in the development of CA games, specifically Rome 2?

I am just wondering how much influence CA staff members who browse these forums have in terms of game developments.

**PlacidDragon** · August 21, 2012, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by DanMLee88

Is Jack Lusted directly involved in the development of CA games, specifically Rome 2?

Yes, he is uuuh.. lead unit designer or something like that.

Originally Posted by DanMLee88

I am just wondering how much influence CA staff members who browse these forums have in terms of game developments.

Impossible to say. Generally speaking, i'd say little to none.

**DanMLee88** · August 21, 2012, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by PlacidDragon

Yes, he is uuuh.. lead unit designer or something like that.

Impossible to say. Generally speaking, i'd say little to none.

There goes my hopes these words actually affecting game development...and to think I actually thought it would make a difference...

**DanMLee88** · August 21, 2012, 01:28 AM

Another thing: As we all know, political and domestic strife of Rome left a significant impact upon history. Although CA seem to be trying to give more substance to this, it is only half-hearted to this point.

Offices, impact of being given or being deprived of 'inheritance rights' or political positions, influence of loyalty or such things have so far been....how should we say, feels too 'scripted'. Influence of politics or such intricacies are just marked by appearance of few words under character portrait, etc. No complexity or feeling of 'game within a game' that spies or assassins have.

Similar measures would greatly enrich economic side as well, and diplomacy and foreign intelligence activities. I am not proposing we should turn Rome 2 into Simcity BC 41 or anything, but really some depth and complexity of aspects other than just warfare is desperately needed to give more replay value and depth to this game filled with potential. Sure, they may be side dishes to the main course of tactical and strategic warfare accompanied by cinematic greatness that is the Total War franchise, but side dishes make the meal just as much as the main course right?