We should be able to premote our own soldiers

**Lionheart11** · August 07, 2012, 05:40 PM

Im not just talking generals but those lower ,like sergeants and other ranks that rome had.

This way you can develop your own charaters and who know's they may become a ceasar?

Maybe even add a retainer tree for them,colledge study?war study?engineering ect.

Just a idea

**Condottiere 40K** · August 07, 2012, 05:46 PM

Too complex; you'd end up with sixty centurions and ten various staff officers per legion, not to mention how the auxiliaries are organized.

**rye8111** · August 07, 2012, 05:52 PM

I like the idea, but CA is going to "simplify" gameplay, so it is pretty close to impossible that this will happen in your description. However, they might have some kind of random event like in Shogun 2 where you can spend a certain amount of money to promote a loyal servant.

**Lionheart11** · August 07, 2012, 05:52 PM

Ok granted but atleast give us a choice of generals, even a choice of three like empire had is better than pot luck scripting?

**PROMETHEUS ts** · August 07, 2012, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Lionheart11

Im not just talking generals but those lower ,like sergeants and other ranks that rome had.

This way you can develop your own charaters and who know's they may become a ceasar?

Maybe even add a retainer tree for them,colledge study?war study?engineering ect.

Just a idea

Oh wait , CA said this time we will be able to see the fights from the soldier level ... I 'd say that for cool factor it woudl be cool to have a favored solider , name it and promote lol from soldier to centurion to primipilus etc ...

Coudl be cool ...

**XxAndrewxX2525** · August 07, 2012, 07:19 PM

In RTW 1, if you had an army without a General and your faction was quite low on Generals, and they win a battle they have a rather large disadvantage in, you automatically had the option of adopting the leading soldier as a general. I think that this should be in R2, but you should be able to choose to promote/adopt a soldier as your general without being prompted to. It would add alot to the gameplay; being able to promote a 'Captain' to a General for having a well fought battle. Of course you would only be able to do this 'x' amount of times, according to how many generals you currently have in your faction in comparison to the amount of regions you control.

**TheRomanRuler** · August 07, 2012, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by XxAndrewxX2525

In RTW 1, if you had an army without a General and your faction was quite low on Generals, and they win a battle they have a rather large disadvantage in, you automatically had the option of adopting the leading soldier as a general. I think that this should be in R2, but you should be able to choose to promote/adopt a soldier as your general without being prompted to. It would add alot to the gameplay; being able to promote a 'Captain' to a General for having a well fought battle. Of course you would only be able to do this 'x' amount of times, according to how many generals you currently have in your faction in comparison to the amount of regions you control.

Also those captain promoted should have only +1 command, no other bonuses.

**daelin4** · August 07, 2012, 08:23 PM

Promotions should at best be expressed via the traditional XP system.

And add to that, the only way you can get first cohorts is if you managed to get a legionary unit up to level 10 XP!

**Nearby** · August 07, 2012, 08:49 PM

Roman officers where more important then many think. Majority think, that the general was the mastermind behind the strategy, but in battle, romans had high ranking officers, who issued orders during the battle on theyr own . Many battles were won by high ranking officers ,not the main figure (general). One of the examples , during the battle a cohort officer may order a flanking maneuver thus surrounding the enemy and winning .. It happened in battle against macedon ,were unknown officer ordered the troops to attack macedonians fighting on the right side ,which was stronger (the person that knows the battle will know what I am talking about..

)

**DarthRuanek** · August 07, 2012, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Nearby

Roman officers where more important then many think. Majority think, that the general was the mastermind behind the strategy, but in battle, romans had high ranking officers, who issued orders during the battle on theyr own . Many battles were won by high ranking officers ,not the main figure (general). One of the examples , during the battle a cohort officer may order a flanking maneuver thus surrounding the enemy and winning .. It happened in battle against macedon ,were unknown officer ordered the troops to attack macedonians fighting on the right side ,which was stronger (the person that knows the battle will know what I am talking about..

)

That's true of armies in general. Lower-ranking officers barely ever get recognition from history.

**SturmChurro** · August 07, 2012, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Lionheart11

Im not just talking generals but those lower ,like sergeants and other ranks that rome had.

This way you can develop your own charaters and who know's they may become a ceasar?

Maybe even add a retainer tree for them,colledge study?war study?engineering ect.

Just a idea

It would be cool, but for a game on the scale of Total War I doubt this could work. Either way CA has stated they want less micromanagement, right? So I can't see them doing this.

A more in depth system for generals? I am all for it.

**~~AgentGB~~** · August 08, 2012, 12:44 AM

Not sure about promoting troops myself, wouldn't mind see a trait system maybe working along with legion units themselves, RS2 have a nice medal/award system, that leads to promotion faster.Wouldn't mind seeing my guys or legions keeping a record of how many citations or awards they recieve, even if they give no bonus.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

This Roman coin represents The Civic Crown or Corona Civica

Decorations and Awards of the Roman Army

When a legionary distinguished himself in battle he could expect more then just monetary reward. Following the victorious battle, troops would had been assembled and soldiers would be called forward by their general. Every unit kept thorough written record on every man, with promotions, transfers, citations, reprimands and punishments. These were all studiously noted down by the man’s optio (the second-in-command of his century). At the assembly, general would read legionary’s previous citations aloud, then praise the soldier publicly for his latest act of gallantry or bravery, promoting him and often giving him cash reward or putting him on double pay. After that he would present him with decorations of valour, to the great cheer of the men of his legion. Polybius recorded these awards, which continued to be presented for hundreds of years. (Poly., VI, 39)

The Spear:
This was awarded for wounding an enemy in skirmish or other action where it wasn’t necessary to engage in single combat and therefore expose your-self to danger. Literally “the Ancient Unadorned Spear”, a silver, later golden token. It wasn’t awarded if the wound was inflicted in the course of a pitched battle, as the soldier was then acting under orders to expose himself to danger. On Trajan’s column there is a scene where it seems that Emperor Trajan is presenting the spear to a soldier.
This might be the hasta pura or an “Arrow without the Head” but this can’t be confirmed with certainty. It is mentioned by Polybius (Polybius, The Histories, Volume III, Chapter 39), but scholars aren't sure where it was used.

The Silver Cup:
This was awarded for killing and stripping an enemy in a skirmish or other action where it wasn’t necessary to engage in single combat. For the same deed, a cavalryman received a decoration to place on his horse’s harness.

The Silver Standard:
A small replica of a standard or flag. There are some uncertainties about what this actually was. Some scholars suggest it was a replica of vexillum (a standard that was primarily used by legion’s detachments, it was a square cloth banner bearing the unit’s title). Carrying the name of Silver Standard it is highly unlikely that this was indeed vexillum. More probably this was a standard or a pole on which the unit carried vexillum. However, this are all just guesses as there is no certain information about it.

The Torque and Amulae:
These were awarded for valour in battle. A golden necklace and wrist bracelets. These frequently won by centurions and cavalrymen.

The Crowns:
There were several types of crowns (corona) awarded. There are (as always) some different opinions among scholars on the types, requirements and effects of these rewards so I’ll present one system. The Gold Crown (corona aurea) was awarded for outstanding bravery in battle. The Mural Crown (corona muralis) was awarded to the first Roman soldier over an enemy city walls in an assault. It was made of gold and it was crenallated. The Naval Crown (corona navalis) was awarded for outstanding bravery in sea battle. This was a golden crown decorated with ship’s beaks. The Crown of Valour (corona vallaris or corona castrensis) was awarded to the first roman soldier to cross the ramparts of an enemy camp in an assault. The Civic Crown (corona civica) was awarded to the first man to scale an enemy wall. It was made from oak leaves and was also awarded for saving the life of fellow soldier, or shielding him from danger. The man whose life was saved was required to present his saviour with a golden crown, and to honor him as if he were his father for the rest of his days. It was considered to be Rome’s highest military decoration, and the holder of the Civic Crown was venerated by Romans and given pride of place in civic parades. Julius Caesar was awarded the Civic Crown when serving as a young tribune in the assault on Mytilene, capital of the Greek island of Lesbos. This last decoration is also where the opinions of scholars clash the most. Some suggest different conditions, some even claim there was even higher decoration called the Grass Crown (corona obsidionalis or corona graminea). However ,in their effects this two are similar so it could be that the same award was called differently in different occasions. These awards were described in time of Polybius. There isn’t much mention of them after he has died, but scholars agree that these same decorations were used in Imperial time also.

There are also references to entire units (centuries and maybe even maniples and cohorts) receiving decorations. However, this weren't worn by soldiers (contrary to just described ones) and so i didn't choose to put them here. One of the greatest legion decorations was considered to be honor of carrying Emperors name (2nd Traiana Legion) or Emperor's family name (16th Flavia Firma, 30th Ulpia Legion).

In literature and especially on the internet one can find various other decorations that are claimed to be in existence and in use by the Romans. However, as i was trying to keep this as historically accurate as possible I haven't listed those that don't seem to have at least some support by majority of the scholars.

Taken from the RS2 thread
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=Roman+medals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_m...nd_punishments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...f_ancient_Rome

**check_engine** · August 08, 2012, 09:01 AM

I like the idea in concept, but the playability of it might prove a bit cumbersome.

Munifex - where a new recruit would start holding absolutely no rank of privilage.

Immunis - not a rank so to say, but more of a billet. Immunis are still general soldiers, but because of certain skills they hold; literacy, blacksmith, etc. they perform duties around the camp like clerk work and smithing and are therefore "immune" to being pulled for standard working parties. The standard bearer, trumpeter and the like also fall into this category

Principalis - Essentially the Roman version of the non staff grade non-commissioned officer, arranging sentry details and the like. The Optio, who is to take over command in the death or invaliding of the centurian is included in the principalis ranks

Centurian - A legion would contain some 60 centurians and their status depends on the order of battle to include centurians of the first cohort and the Primus Pilus, the front rank (pilus prior), to the rear rank (pilus posterior). The status probably only mattered to the centurians themselves. The rank and file would have considered them all a pain equally.

Military Tribunes - a legion would have about five, wannabe generals looking to improve their political careers.

Praefectus Castrorum - a professional to the bone and usually the longest serving centurion. Outranking the tribunes the Praefectus and would likely be very similar to a Sergeant Major at the divisional level in today's armies

Tribunus Laticlavus - the second in command and is either a senator or a member of the senetorial class

Legionary Legate - The top dog.

As you can see even these basic ranks without going into detail would be cumbersome. You could simplify it by only assigning one Centurian to each card in the stack, the second in command and then of course the legate. That may be more doable, but an auto assign would have to be in place so that those that are annoyed with micro managing at this level would be relieved of the task.

I would perfer to see all characters available to the faction in a screen (to include daughters) and from them you could assign them the roles or emmisary (having contact with a certain faction allows you to establish a diplomat in their court this would take effect next turn, please no more moving diplomats around. It simply combines the skill gain of diplomats from pre-Empire games with the ease of establishing diplomatic functions of post-Empire games), General (again the travel takes place automatically to the region where the legion or army is being raised), Governor (Not on the region level, but on the provincial level -or vice versa, I'm a bit confused with the terminology.) Governors would also gain traits and skills depending on their region and would be the only unit that could move the capilot garrison outside the city to dela with rebellion -but not outside the province, and perhaps spy and assassins (these would be movable on the campaign map). It would be possible to recall a governor, general, or diplomat (perhaps with a loyalty hit) and either assign them to a new slot (increase in loyalty depending of if the city is larger than their original, army is more prestigious, or diplomatic spot is more "plum" -I imagine a diplomat to Parthia would be more comfortable than one posted in Britain.) If left to stew in the senate (or tribal council) they may try to raise a rebellion or because of their previous treatment and time in their position may be a advocate for the player.

-Cheers

**HappyGoodVibes** · August 08, 2012, 12:52 PM

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Originally Posted by AgentGB

Not sure about promoting troops myself, wouldn't mind see a trait system maybe working along with legion units themselves, RS2 have a nice medal/award system, that leads to promotion faster.Wouldn't mind seeing my guys or legions keeping a record of how many citations or awards they recieve, even if they give no bonus.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

This Roman coin represents The Civic Crown or Corona Civica

Decorations and Awards of the Roman Army

When a legionary distinguished himself in battle he could expect more then just monetary reward. Following the victorious battle, troops would had been assembled and soldiers would be called forward by their general. Every unit kept thorough written record on every man, with promotions, transfers, citations, reprimands and punishments. These were all studiously noted down by the man’s optio (the second-in-command of his century). At the assembly, general would read legionary’s previous citations aloud, then praise the soldier publicly for his latest act of gallantry or bravery, promoting him and often giving him cash reward or putting him on double pay. After that he would present him with decorations of valour, to the great cheer of the men of his legion. Polybius recorded these awards, which continued to be presented for hundreds of years. (Poly., VI, 39)

The Spear:
This was awarded for wounding an enemy in skirmish or other action where it wasn’t necessary to engage in single combat and therefore expose your-self to danger. Literally “the Ancient Unadorned Spear”, a silver, later golden token. It wasn’t awarded if the wound was inflicted in the course of a pitched battle, as the soldier was then acting under orders to expose himself to danger. On Trajan’s column there is a scene where it seems that Emperor Trajan is presenting the spear to a soldier.
This might be the hasta pura or an “Arrow without the Head” but this can’t be confirmed with certainty. It is mentioned by Polybius (Polybius, The Histories, Volume III, Chapter 39), but scholars aren't sure where it was used.

The Silver Cup:
This was awarded for killing and stripping an enemy in a skirmish or other action where it wasn’t necessary to engage in single combat. For the same deed, a cavalryman received a decoration to place on his horse’s harness.

The Silver Standard:
A small replica of a standard or flag. There are some uncertainties about what this actually was. Some scholars suggest it was a replica of vexillum (a standard that was primarily used by legion’s detachments, it was a square cloth banner bearing the unit’s title). Carrying the name of Silver Standard it is highly unlikely that this was indeed vexillum. More probably this was a standard or a pole on which the unit carried vexillum. However, this are all just guesses as there is no certain information about it.

The Torque and Amulae:
These were awarded for valour in battle. A golden necklace and wrist bracelets. These frequently won by centurions and cavalrymen.

The Crowns:
There were several types of crowns (corona) awarded. There are (as always) some different opinions among scholars on the types, requirements and effects of these rewards so I’ll present one system. The Gold Crown (corona aurea) was awarded for outstanding bravery in battle. The Mural Crown (corona muralis) was awarded to the first Roman soldier over an enemy city walls in an assault. It was made of gold and it was crenallated. The Naval Crown (corona navalis) was awarded for outstanding bravery in sea battle. This was a golden crown decorated with ship’s beaks. The Crown of Valour (corona vallaris or corona castrensis) was awarded to the first roman soldier to cross the ramparts of an enemy camp in an assault. The Civic Crown (corona civica) was awarded to the first man to scale an enemy wall. It was made from oak leaves and was also awarded for saving the life of fellow soldier, or shielding him from danger. The man whose life was saved was required to present his saviour with a golden crown, and to honor him as if he were his father for the rest of his days. It was considered to be Rome’s highest military decoration, and the holder of the Civic Crown was venerated by Romans and given pride of place in civic parades. Julius Caesar was awarded the Civic Crown when serving as a young tribune in the assault on Mytilene, capital of the Greek island of Lesbos. This last decoration is also where the opinions of scholars clash the most. Some suggest different conditions, some even claim there was even higher decoration called the Grass Crown (corona obsidionalis or corona graminea). However ,in their effects this two are similar so it could be that the same award was called differently in different occasions. These awards were described in time of Polybius. There isn’t much mention of them after he has died, but scholars agree that these same decorations were used in Imperial time also.

There are also references to entire units (centuries and maybe even maniples and cohorts) receiving decorations. However, this weren't worn by soldiers (contrary to just described ones) and so i didn't choose to put them here. One of the greatest legion decorations was considered to be honor of carrying Emperors name (2nd Traiana Legion) or Emperor's family name (16th Flavia Firma, 30th Ulpia Legion).

In literature and especially on the internet one can find various other decorations that are claimed to be in existence and in use by the Romans. However, as i was trying to keep this as historically accurate as possible I haven't listed those that don't seem to have at least some support by majority of the scholars.

Taken from the RS2 thread
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=Roman+medals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_m...nd_punishments
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...f_ancient_Rome

This is a great idea and would really add a lot to the feel of the legions when they have a record of the "great events" of their lives, so to speak. RSII has a lot of great features regarding traits for government, characters, and armies. I would not mind at all if many core features of RSII made it into Rome II. I always say RSII is the best Rome mod.