Active/passive abilities?

[Tepok]

After the following comment, I realised just how much I never use the active abilities of my units that aren't generals:

The less I have to directly control, the better. I don't like pressing buttons for things either. If the soldiers are getting shot by arrows, let them automatically cover themselves with shields. If the soldiers are standing massed on one side of the field, let them being taunting the enemy and uttering their "war cry." This is certainly the direction CA should take with things like this, and the focus of the battles should be on maneuvering your forces around the battlefield, not pressing the *taunt* button on the user interface.

and I was wondering: Shouldn't there be more "Passive" combat abilities, that could be toggled on and off?

The topic the quote is from is in the topic about "Warcry".

What if "Barbarians" yelled when charging, causing a slight moral negative modifier against the charged units?
What if shield-armed units under fire had a "Cover" ability that made them slow down under arrow fire, but made them virtually invulnerable to those?
What if cavalry about to charge changed formations for a spearhead?
What if Generals automatically used their "Rally" when units around them started wavering?
What of legionaries kept the morale of nearby "Lesser" units slightly higher?

What if experienced units gained abilities (Like the passive allies morale boost, or causing fear, basic things) instead of gaining extreme stats (They still get better, but once in a while just gain a passive)? A unit that just butchered the enemy gains "Fear". A unit that routed units engaged with wavering allies would "Inspire". A unit that fought and won against units they weren't supposed to fight (Swords VS horses) would learn how to break the charge.

This would also make units "Individuals", not just "Oh, yeah, that's a high XP unit". These units would gain names, and possibly army wide-bonuses as a valuable general would. "The legio astartes guys are here! We can't possibly lose!".

Of course, that idea is for very high XP units. Possibly early XP levels would still be stat bonuses, but after a max they can't increase their stats but gain those passives.

Just a random idea.

[Voodo chile]

All pretty dam good ideas. One thing i never thought about before is 'learning'. Very good that one.

Eg, Say it was Empire - 15th Regiment Line Infantry Britain.
FIghts in large battle. During battle against France, stationed on the flank, comes under heavy cavalry attack numerous times but manages to hold them off relatively well by effective square formation, x4 charges they hold off infact. Even the mighty 1st French Curiasers cannot break them
Battle ends
15th Regiment of foot gains 1 chevron in experience. IN ADDITION to this, they also get a unit trait, similar to generals, and they get the trait 'Glue Factory' -" This unit consists of battle veterans, well learned in the art of anti cavalry formations and tactics" - "Insert_ Bonus against Cavalry"

Say the 12 Regiment Line Infantry has routed 5 times in a row in 5 consecutive battles. They would gain a negative trait. "Low Moral/ Cowardly Reputation" -" This unit has proved to be utterly useless of the battlefield and shouldn't be relied apon to do anything useful, their reputation has become infamous/tarnished their rep" - Insert_-4 unit moral, -2 unit moral to adjacent units within sphere of influence, +5 Increase to moral enemy units who are in the unit sphere on influence that have routed this unit before"

Over a long campaign, a well travelled army would accumulate a number of traits after each battle and each unit would have different traits, depending on their past experiences. This would make them more individually recognizable, and unique.


I've always wondered why there was never the ability to sacrifice movement speed for protection against missile. Not testudo but simple just 'caution from missiles' move order where units would advance and at the same time, cover themselves as best they can with shields and vice verse, faster advance with less caution from missile attack.

[Tepok]

Glad you like the idea

It's kind of Empire that made me think about this. There were quite a few "Renown" regiments at those times that the enemy feared, some for their savagery, some for their discipline. Many had some sort of "Mystique" around them, with known banners, emblems, hats...

And yes of course, there could be negative modifiers. And "Half good, half bad" modifiers, like a regiment almost wiped out without retreating could have "stubborn" trait: They have a very strong morale, but give a negative morale to nearby units, friend or foe.

In Rome 1 there was the turtle formation where it moved slowly and was quite compact, so vulnerable to catapults and such.

[Kongming69]

I think they will use these types of ideas especially if Empire had it.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Well good ideas except for the wedge and the rally, especially the whether to use the wedge or not is a choice that need to be up to the player.

[ironbrigade]

If these are to be included, I hope to god there is not a button that has to be pushed to "activate" them

[Tepok]

If these are to be included, I hope to god there is not a button that has to be pushed to "activate" them

That's why I said they could be toggled on and off. if toggle on, the unit will be automated.

[Condottiere 40K]

Traits are great for characters, since it's easy to be sort of specific; institutional memory is rather harder to define, and in Shogun was in the form of clan bonuses.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Well it looks like active abilities aren't popular among lot of people, I myself agree that Shogun 2 had too much Warcraft 3 style abilities and I hate Warcraft 3.

Hopefully they will do like the original RTW and just have on-off buttons for things like skirmish mode, formations and fire arrows (the button for this was okay in Shogun 2 though), hopefully they also skip the silly warcry button.

[Tepok]

There are games where active abilities are quite normal (generally fast paced Starcraft & others). But TW often attracts people who prefer global strategy.

Micro? Nay, Macro.

[Lord Baal]

Both are not mutually exclusive, as I said before, you can have infinite (read as tons of) micro, along all the macro options. The key is to develope them with good automation, so you are not needed to do the micro all the time, only if you fell like doing it.

[Jungle Rhino]

Acive button abilities are an AWFUL idea!! Why do soldiers with shields need to be told by their commander to raise them to ward of arrows? Why would a warband only do a warcry when ordered?

For sure make them passive abilities - i.e. whenever charging warbands automatically warcry reducing an opponent's morale. But the player shouldn't need to be involved in that process. It is needless micro - trying to emulate the Starcraft gameplay experience.

I personally HATED FotS for that reason. The stupid 'magic powers' that your cannon had to fire shrapnell shot but only once every 5 minutes - wtf?! Makes no sense whatsoever. Even worse was the 'aim really hard now' magic power - would the gunners not be aiming all the time??

Active buttons are simply gloss to distract easily bored players who beleive that 'strategy' is measured by mouse clicks per minute.

I'm all for formation modes (spear wall, etc.) - but they should be toggles, and not have cooldowns. Cooldowns are immersion breakers. Also get rid of the rally button - again commanders should automatically attempt to rally any broken troops within 'range'. It is needless micro.

[ironbrigade]

Acive button abilities are an AWFUL idea!! Why do soldiers with shields need to be told by their commander to raise them to ward of arrows? Why would a warband only do a warcry when ordered?

For sure make them passive abilities - i.e. whenever charging warbands automatically warcry reducing an opponent's morale. But the player shouldn't need to be involved in that process. It is needless micro - trying to emulate the Starcraft gameplay experience.

I personally HATED FotS for that reason. The stupid 'magic powers' that your cannon had to fire shrapnell shot but only once every 5 minutes - wtf?! Makes no sense whatsoever. Even worse was the 'aim really hard now' magic power - would the gunners not be aiming all the time??

Active buttons are simply gloss to distract easily bored players who beleive that 'strategy' is measured by mouse clicks per minute.

I'm all for formation modes (spear wall, etc.) - but they should be toggles, and not have cooldowns. Cooldowns are immersion breakers. Also get rid of the rally button - again commanders should automatically attempt to rally any broken troops within 'range'. It is needless micro.

agreed 100% I love this post