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Thread: Starting positions

  1. #41

    Default Re: Starting positions

    Quote Originally Posted by The Khanate View Post
    Yeah, i think that is right. Will the Jin be an emergent faction or will the game not encompass the later years of RoTK?
    This could actually been done since it makes it more difficult for the wei to take control of china (han). It's also more historically. Also if they are going to put them in, they should have almost the same units as the Wei since they were once part of it.
    Last edited by tianzong; August 17, 2012 at 07:53 AM.
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  2. #42

    Default Re: Starting positions

    Quote Originally Posted by alreadyded View Post
    I have 31 factions, 32 rebel factions, and zero CTD's.
    Quote Originally Posted by BroskiDerpman View Post
    The limit of factions for m2tw is 31. (1 of the factions I think has to be rebels)
    Sorry for off-topic, but which of the above is correct? I also thought that M2TW/K faction limit is 30+1 rebells. So 31 or 32?


  3. #43
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    Total faction entries being processed in descr_sm_factions is 31 - anything after that will be ignored.

    alreadydyed must be referring to the possibility to assign a rebel symbol to each faction (city banner showing in fog of war).
    Last edited by Gigantus; August 17, 2012 at 09:17 AM.










  4. #44

    Default Re: Starting positions

    descr_rebels.txt allows you to have 32 rebel factions. Each has its own banner and faction name. I don't think this has anything to do with with menu CTD's, just posting that it does indeed work with maxed out factions.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ixor_Drakar View Post
    If you were to include any steppe faction it should be the Xiongnu. They were a tributary state under the Han and Cao Cao/Tsao Tsao would use the Xiongnu cavalry in Shangxi as auxiliaries. Mongols as they were didn't exist as a tribe at this time.
    I didn't say Mongols, I said "early era Mongols." The Xiongnu were basically Mongols. Did you think the Xiongnu up and disappeared one day so the Mongols moved in and starting calling it Mongolia? Their languages, cultures, and nomadic way of life are "Mongolic," they just hadn't started calling themselves Mongols yet as they saw themselves as a mixed people. Xiongnu is merely a Chinese corruption of a Mongolic word for "people", these people didn't refer to themselves as that either. Coming up with a proper name for them would be difficult, I suppose Hunnu would be the most accurate though it is a modern term and a generalization. They should not be a proper faction though, it should be more like smaller nomadic rebel tribes due to terrain, lifestyle, various peoples, and recent historic events. I just thought making one a playable faction could be fun and use up that empty space on the map. I guess I just don't like unused space on maps is all. Plus it might mess up the campaign AI if it is not accessible or the regions are too big or too few. At any rate it is not important right now, just an idea.

    The Han bailed the old decrepit government of these (Hunnu for lack of a better generalization) people out of a nasty rebellion so they did owe some military service to the Han Dynasty. Though these people hated that and were by no means allies or a proper tributary to the Han in any way. They wanted this "obligation" to be done with as soon as possible and barely sent any aid to begin with. Therefore they had little to do with the events in the Three Kingdoms era. Mercs would be good, but not a lot of them, or lots but with low replenishment. Of course if you make mercs you might as well use those units for rebels as well.
    Last edited by alreadyded; August 17, 2012 at 09:49 PM.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    descr_rebels.txt allows you to have 32 rebel factions. Each has its own banner and faction name. I don't think this has anything to do with with menu CTD's, just posting that it does indeed work with maxed out factions.
    descr_rebels allows you unlimited regional rebels - but you can't assign more then one to each region. They will have their own display name, but the city symbol is limited to the faction rebel symbol of the cities creator entry and the rebel flag's appearance is limited to the number of cultures. All of this does not make them independent rebels - they still belong to the original rebel faction as per descr_sm_factions.










  6. #46

    Default Re: Starting positions

    Quote Originally Posted by tianzong View Post
    This could actually been done since it makes it more difficult for the wei to take control of china (han). It's also more historically. Also if they are going to put them in, they should have almost the same units as the Wei since they were once part of it.
    Yes, it would certainly stop Wei from total domination. The Sima Clan would play a huge part in this mod.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    I don't think the Sima clan usurping Wei and establishing Jin should be scripted; it makes no sense. The Sima clan only came to prominence because of the strategic and political genius of Sima Yi (and his sons) and the weakness and isolation of the later Wei Emperors; it was because of a ton of circumstances, not because of inevitable factors.
    Last edited by Seether; August 19, 2012 at 12:14 AM.
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  8. #48
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    If that happens ingame then a historic event could describe the similarities to real life, or alternatively a historical event could be displayed at the time when it happened in real life - informative only, something I call a 'calendar event' . I am no big fan of imposing real life historic events on Total War games: this will be alternative history right after the start and forced historic events can be extremely frustrating.










  9. #49
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    Here is a proposal for all of the historic prefects, governors, and leaders that were active in 194. There are 26 in all, not counting rebels of course. And it says "Southern Tribes" because I have yet to find a source that states who the Nanman leader was in 194... and before you answer, no it was not Meng Huo (he was a child) and Shamoke was Qiang. Please note that some, such as Liu Yan and Tao Qian, died in 194 and their lands inherited by others (namely Liu Zhang and Liu Bei respectively). To simplify things, they will be considered dead at the campaign's start. These reflect the changes to settlement names and additional settlements as proposed in another thread.

    Leader - Starting Positions
    Gongsun Du - Xiang Ping
    Gongsun Zan - Fan Yang, Bei Ping, Liao Xi, Chang Li
    Yuan Shao - Ye Cheng, Nan Pi, Le Ling, Ping Yuan, Xin Du, Qing He
    Zhang Yan - Jin Yang, Dai Xian, Yanmen Guan, Xin Xing
    Zhang Yang - He Nei, Shang Dang, Gu Guan
    Cao Cao - Chen Liu, Zhui Yang, Qiao Jun, Chen Xian, Wu Yin, Xu Chang, Si Shui Guan
    Lu Bu - Dong Jun, Pu Yang, Shan Yang
    Liu Bei - Xia Pi, Peng Cheng, Xiao Pei
    Yuan Shu - Shou Chun, He Fei, An Feng, Yi Yang, Lu Jiang
    Sun Ce - Jiang Xian, Hu Ling
    Liu Yao - Mo Ling
    Yan Baihu - Wu
    Wang Lang - Hui Ji
    Zhang Xiu - Wan Cheng
    Li Jue - Chang An, Bei Di, An Ding, Wu Guan, Tong Guan
    Ma Teng - Wu Wei, Jin Cheng, Xi Ping, Nan An
    Zhang Lu - Han Zhong, Yang Ping Guan
    Liu Zhang - Cheng Du, Luo Cheng, Zi Tong, Jian Wei, Jiang Zhou, Mian Zhu Guan, Jia Men Guan
    Shi Xie - Cang Wu
    Liu Biao - Xiang Yang, Jiang Ling, Gai Yang, Mai Cheng, Fan Cheng
    Han Xuan - Chang Sha
    Jin Xuan - Wu Ling
    Liu Du - Ling Ling
    Zhao Fan - Gui Yang
    Southern Tribes - Yong Chang, Yun Nan
    Last edited by Seether; October 02, 2012 at 10:32 PM.
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  10. #50
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    Looks like I got my work cut out.

    I agree with treating 'nearly dead' characters as already deceased. It is otherwise extremely messy when it comes to scripting. Simply including them as 'ancestors' in the family tree is not a problem.










  11. #51
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    Thank goodness that you are a God at scripting

    Would you like for me to start work on family trees for a 194 start?
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  12. #52
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    Are you familiar with the format of the family tree in the descr_strat file? I could then simply upload the descr_strat to you and you could have a look at the existing family trees. Underneath the example for Cao Cao's faction family tree:

    Characters on the map\in the game
    character J-0101-CaoCao, named character, male, leader, age 40,
    character J-0102-CaoRen, named character, male, age 27,
    character J-0103-CaoHong, named character, male, age 26,
    character J-0124-CaoAng, named character, male, age 20,
    character J-0129-CaoPi, named character, male, heir, age 18,

    Family members not on the map (wives, under age children, dead ancestors)
    character_record DingShi, female, age 32, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record LiuShi, female, age 27, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record SunShi, female, age 26, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record BianShi, female, age 20, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record ZhenBi, female, age 18, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record ChenShi, female, age 38, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record WangShi, female, age 32, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record FengShi, female, age 29, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record ZhangShi, female, age 17, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record ZhuRong, female, age 51, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record MengShi, female, age 51, alive, never_a_leader

    character_record J-0140-SiMaFu , male, age 15, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record J-0135-XiaHouShang , male, age 14, alive, never_a_leader

    character_record J-0125-CaoZhang , male, age 13, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record J-0126-CaoZhi , male, age 12, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record J-0131-CaoYu , male, age 11, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record J-0139-XiaHouMao , male, age 10, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record J-0136-XiaHouBa , male, age 9, alive, never_a_leader

    character_record J-0132-CaoShuang , male, age 8, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record J-0137-XiaHouWei , male, age 7, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record J-0133-CaoXun , male, age 6, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record J-0138-XiaHouHui , male, age 5, alive, never_a_leader

    character_record J-0134-CaoXi , male, age 4, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record J-0130-CaoRui , male, age 3, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record J-0121-SiMaShi , male, age 2, alive, never_a_leader
    character_record J-0122-SiMaZhao , male, age 1, alive, never_a_leader


    Family Connections (husband, wife, max 4 children in descending age) starting with the top of the tree
    relative J-0101-CaoCao, DingShi, J-0102-CaoRen,J-0103-CaoHong,J-0124-CaoAng,J-0129-CaoPi, end
    relative J-0102-CaoRen, LiuShi, J-0125-CaoZhang,J-0126-CaoZhi, end
    relative J-0103-CaoHong, SunShi, J-0131-CaoYu, end
    relative J-0124-CaoAng, BianShi, J-0132-CaoShuang,J-0133-CaoXun,J-0134-CaoXi, end
    relative J-0129-CaoPi, ZhenBi, J-0130-CaoRui, end
    relative J-0104-XiaHouDun, ChenShi, J-0123-CaoChun,J-0127-CaoXiu,J-0128-CaoZhen,J-0139-XiaHouMao, end
    relative J-0105-XiaHouYuan, WangShi, J-0135-XiaHouShang,J-0136-XiaHouBa,J-0137-XiaHouWei,J-0138-XiaHouHui, end
    relative J-0119-SiMaLang, FengShi, J-0120-SiMaYi,J-0140-SiMaFu, end
    relative J-0120-SiMaYi, ZhangShi, J-0121-SiMaShi,J-0122-SiMaZhao, end
    relative J-0113-ChengYu, ZhuRong, end
    relative J-0117-MaoJie, MengShi, end


    The result looks like this (entries not related to the leader will be ignored) :

    Last edited by Gigantus; August 19, 2012 at 04:08 AM.










  13. #53
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    Yep I'm familiar with it (although its been a couple years), the link in my sig is actually for a family tree submod I did for Stainless Steel. I actually learned how to do it from your tutorials So, yeah, go ahead and upload it for me and I'll take a look. Also, can you send descr_names and names.txt, because I'm intrigued how the name lists work with what you have posted.

    Just a note on the family tree you posted, it is totally messed up as far as relations go. I could look at expanding the family tree up a few generations so that the trees are far more accurate and people like Cao Ren, Cao Hong, and Xiahou Dun can be included within the family tree realistically.
    Last edited by Seether; August 19, 2012 at 05:40 AM.
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  14. #54
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    Here you are.

    I have also included a 'sticky' of mine indicating which faction has got what name (eg england = The Cao Clan) and other helpful stuff.

    Edit: I think the numerical names have been used to help with allocation, be it toward faction, traits or other stuff. The absence of it in non playable characters seems to confirm that.










  15. #55
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    Having fun with it so far... gonna test the Cao family tree in a bit and see how it goes...
    Last edited by Seether; August 19, 2012 at 08:06 AM.
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  16. #56
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    You should be able to use the map teaser with that descr_strat I think. Just a lot of portraits missing in that installation.










  17. #57
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    If I input my work into the descr_strat you recently sent, I get an error in descr_strat (line 867 or 869), which are lines I did not touched. Inputting my work into the Map Teaser's descr_strat does not cause an error. *shrug*

    EDIT: Actually, I think I might have fixed it...

    Anyways, sending back an updated names.txt and descr_names (as there was a bit of names to fix), as well as some stuff for the Cao clan (finalized family tree, generals proposal) in descr_strat.
    Last edited by Seether; August 19, 2012 at 10:47 AM.
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  18. #58
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    Just a quick question after a first glance: did you get a proper family tree display? Reason why I am asking: the 'older' branches of the family tree are at the bottom of the 'relative' section - something that has been the cause of problems before.

    Edit: just got your error as well, the inital culprit is this.

    Code:
    21:44:58.567 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods/Three_Kingdoms/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_strat.txt, at line 863, column 1
    Couldn't find character records name (J-3202-ZhuGeZhan) in the names database
    21:44:58.567 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods/Three_Kingdoms/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_strat.txt, at line 867, column 76
    could not find next child. Children list must be terminated with an end
    Weird, the name is present in both name files.

    Edit: Miracle solved. You changed the name within the brackets in text\names but not in the descr_strat entry. Both have to agree.

    J-3202-ZhuGeZhan = descr_strat entry line 863 & 867
    J-3202-ZhugeZhan = text\names entry in brackets

    I saw a number of those when comparing the entries of your new names file and the old one. The program is called Notepad++ with the additional plug-in 'compare'.

    Last edited by Gigantus; August 19, 2012 at 11:35 AM.










  19. #59
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    Yes, I got the entire family tree to display. And I was just about to upload the new files since I just found out about ol' Zhuge Zhan (replaced the capital 'G' with a lower case) and fixed it. I included a complete descr_strat, based on the recent one you sent me (which I got to work), with some of the Cao clan generals removed.
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  20. #60
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    Default Re: Starting positions

    Better, just a small glitch this time.

    22:08:58.302 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods/Three_Kingdoms/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_strat.txt, at line 7303, column 58
    could not find next child. Children list must be terminated with an end

    I have got no idea what is wrong with that line - I have simply commented it out and then I got to the family tree eventually, the erro was the rather short tree of the 'spain' faction:
    Code:
    ;relative     J-3001-ZuoCi,        NR30-01-GanShi,J-3002-SimaHui,    end
    I noticed you didn't mark former (dead ) leaders. The entry for that is past_leader (Cao Song\Teng\Meng)



    Edit: did I mention that was nice work?
    Last edited by Gigantus; August 19, 2012 at 11:57 AM.










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