Rebels

[Christian Strand]

Hey!
A few days ago i started playing Rome 1 again which i have not done in many years.. It amazes me how fun it still is, its really a great game! Cant imagine how Rome 2 will be like

Anyway, so when i play Rome1, i see those rebels popping up at random places, even in regions that is very healthy. And this annoys me.

So how will rebels be in Rome2? i hope there wont exist rebels in the same way as Rome1, with factions but i hope it will be more like Empire and Shogun2 that new factions will emerge if they make revolts.

What do you think?

[atila9000]

well, if im not mistaken, the spawning rebels were a good feature, because rome, throughout its history, had to deal with many uprisings.
i think that at one moment, a script will enable a full scale rebellion against Rome made by romans, representing the civil revolts, specially during caesars time period and the following years with octavio and mark anthony. and maybe more big scale rebellions. sometimes, a hole region, or group of them, like gaul, completely rebelled against rome, and the rebels leader declared himself roman emperor, and tried to march to rome. i think this would be excellent

[zg0301zg]

well, if im not mistaken, the spawning rebels were a good feature, because rome, throughout its history, had to deal with many uprisings.
i think that at one moment, a script will enable a full scale rebellion against Rome made by romans, representing the civil revolts, specially during caesars time period and the following years with octavio and mark anthony. and maybe more big scale rebellions. sometimes, a hole region, or group of them, like gaul, completely rebelled against rome, and the rebels leader declared himself roman emperor, and tried to march to rome. i think this would be excellent

not only uprising but also a lot of brigands and thiefs, which were setting ambushes mostly for thievry

[Xerrop]

well, if im not mistaken, the spawning rebels were a good feature, because rome, throughout its history, had to deal with many uprisings.

But uprisings from unhappy villages and provinces would be enough. In Reality Brigands don't start to exist in rich, well developed and good governed provinces. They are a sign of economic and political troubles resulting in unrest under your population.

The constant random appearing armies all over the map are one of the most annoying features in RTW. The good thing is, that you can decrease their appearance with simple changes in the descr_strat file.

[DarthRuanek]

But uprisings from unhappy villages and provinces would be enough. In Reality Brigands don't start to exist in rich, well developed and good governed provinces. They are a sign of economic and political troubles resulting in unrest under your population.

The constant random appearing armies all over the map are one of the most annoying features in RTW. The good thing is, that you can decrease their appearance with simple changes in the descr_strat file.

Well, slave revolts appeared in Italy despite relatively happy populations.

[eXistenZ]

Well, slave revolts appeared in Italy despite relatively happy populations.

yeah but population happines wasnt monitored by a computer back then that decides when its time for a revolt (it still isnt)

I agree with the OP: rebels in happy provinces are just annyoing. its even more annoying in ME2, where rebels spawn that have units you only have in 80 turns (like chivalric knights)

[DarthRuanek]

yeah but population happines wasnt monitored by a computer back then that decides when its time for a revolt (it still isnt)

I agree with the OP: rebels in happy provinces are just annyoing. its even more annoying in ME2, where rebels spawn that have units you only have in 80 turns (like chivalric knights)

I said that to demonstrate that historically revolts can happen in "happy" provinces.

[RexImperator]

Well, slave revolts appeared in Italy despite relatively happy populations.

I doubt the slaves were happy.

[DarthRuanek]

I doubt the slaves were happy.

No kidding. But RTW at least didn't model happiness of multiple groups in a territory. I don't think later games did, either. And the things that contribute to happiness would be things that would mainly apply to free members of the population.

[Xerrop]

Well, slave revolts appeared in Italy despite relatively happy populations.

As other have pointed out - the slaves were not as happy as it seems. Plus the Slave revolts were often supported by local people also. Many of the poorer classes joined Spartacus uprising e.g. Without their support the rebellion would have terminated quickly. It was only so successful because of large poverty and unrest among the free population.

And when using a system where you could see various social classes happiness (introduced since Empire:TW) you can deal with it even better and more complex.

[Okuto]

I personally hated the random rebels popping out of no where......esp when it's in a very happy region of your empire.....

I'd prefer events ala Shogun that may trigger rebellions

Not these silly "ninja rebellions"

[Christian Strand]

Another thing i hate about them being so overpowered, like they have the best units available.

[daelin4]

Never seen them with "best units". Basically all high-tiered units were not obtainable for the rebel faction, so if Greek Cities was destroyed, it's 19 Spartan Hoplites will disappear leaving that one peltast to defend it.

My only gripe with the spawning brigands was that it was locked- they spawned whether your province was great or in dire unrest. They should only start to pop up when unrest has reached a certain point, in which case you can completely avoid this by installing large garrisons and/or good governors.

Still, I loved spending my extra funds bribing them and levelling up my agents.

[Thalassocrat]

But I do remember the occurrences decreased substantially when you establish a string of forts along major roads.......in M2TW, encouraged by the free upkeep, I could literally move infantry from settlement to settlement but ensuring each move ended in a fort. I found the occurrences of brigands dropping substantially with that many forts

[Dumanthis]

I say no more passive gray rebels. I love the Shogun's Factional Rebels and the uprising system in that. But i think that the "rebels" as a factions should go. When the rebels conquer a town they should be able to play as a faction IMO. more interesting in that manner

[Greve Af Göteborg]

I'd rather have events triggering rebellions than the random rebels spawning.

[RexImperator]

But what exactly does population represent. Citizens? Subjects? Everyone?

You can't really say that the population of Italy was happy when you have hundreds of thousands of slaves ready to turn on you at the first opportunity.

[DarthRuanek]

But what exactly does population represent. Citizens? Subjects? Everyone?

You can't really say that the population of Italy was happy when you have hundreds of thousands of slaves ready to turn on you at the first opportunity.

Well, yes. But I don't see arenas, or changing taxes, as affecting slave happiness. So the happiness value clearly doesn't represent slaves.

[Rikx]

No kidding. But RTW at least didn't model happiness of multiple groups in a territory. I don't think later games did, either. And the things that contribute to happiness would be things that would mainly apply to free members of the population.

But what exactly does population represent. Citizens? Subjects? Everyone?

You can't really say that the population of Italy was happy when you have hundreds of thousands of slaves ready to turn on you at the first opportunity.

It is true that were were many revolts during the Roman era, from slave revolts, populations turning to local leaders for help when the emperor did not help or was busy elsewhere, to legions promoting usurper generals as the new emperor.

I've been thinking for a while now that to have separate civilian and slave population counters per city would add more depth to the campaign game for Rome II by having you try to control those populations to avoid revolts. If there are too many more slaves than civilians in one city, and for example that city does not have enough food, then it will likely lead to a revolt for that city, and can even spread to a whole province if left unchecked. And if a city has a Colosseum then some of the rebels could be gladiator units. Same system could apply to the civilian population being unhappy and wanting to form their own nation or empire (like the Palmyrene and Gallic Empires).

[DarthRuanek]

Yeah. Some posts I've seen in this thread and elsewhere lead me to think that the game would really benefit a lot by representing the different social groups in each city (slaves/middle class/patricians/etc.).