TATW Realism+ /Final/ [TATW 3.2]

[adopap]

Good work!I just have one question.. Why do the Uruk Hai look like Dwarves (or goblins)? The are too smaal.They used to be much bigger than orcs didn't the?

[DaVinci]

Good work!I just have one question.. Why do the Uruk Hai look like Dwarves (or goblins)? The are too smaal.They used to be much bigger than orcs didn't the?

Like Dwarves or Goblins?
No, you are right, they are relative big, Saruman's special orcish Uruk creations.

From 1st release post

TATW Realism+ submodding material
Solely TATW 3.2 stuff. The submod changes a lot coding/scripting and ie. unit-wise also adds entries to edu/edb and such, while models are not changed at all. The entire submod is about tweaking the gameplay/balance.

Do you have a picture (screenshot)? Anyways if the Uruk-Hai look different to TATW 3.2 vanilla, then there is something wrong in your installation.

[sanderman2]

Im playing this Submod atm with HE , i like the submod allot !
Only Isengard seems to be like 2nd in the military ranks. prob because there units stats are quite high ( 7 att - 10 deff) for uruk raiders...
But tho rohan is holding .
@ turn 35. Thanks for this lovely submod!

[Aringtoit]

Reinstalled everything--TATW 3.2 and this submod. Everything's working fine now. I'll report back after turn 70 and after I (hopefully) take out the OoG. That's when the ctds started with 2.0.

[DaVinci]

Damn guys, i got a repeating ctd with turn 68 -> 69.
I've verified that it has something to do with the traits file, as i now disabled the triggers, reloaded a save from turn 66, and then i got over turn 72 (formerly not possible to get over turn 68).

And Aringtoit, i highly guess that your experience in 2.0 (OoG rebel and then ctd) was caused by the traits ctd bug as well.

---

Here is the temporary fix, install this on v2.1 (it's the slight modified traits file from v1.1 which comes already with the extra health points for the famous characters and Saruman is immobile), besides it contains the newest vnv file, the traits description file (text folder) as preparation for the upcoming real fixed traits file from 2.1 (atm. i don't wanna give it up on that traits file, a lot work went into it, just need to find the culprit).

If you are in your campaign below turn 60 or so, chance is there that the campaign moves on properly with the temp traits fix file, but just in case it ctd's still, start the campaign anew with this temp trait fix, and then i'm pretty sure the campaign is ctd-free.
But my best advice is to restart the v2.1 campaign with this temp fix applied.

Installation: Open folder Third_Age_3/data and paste the unzipped files, overwrite.

Edit: Attachment removed.

[DaVinci]

I just fixed the campaign ctd.

I merged the traits file from v1.9 with my v2.1 traits additions and the former crash turn 68 -> 69 is fixed, same effect as with the above mentioned disabled triggers, campaign plays on.
That means random occuring trigger(s)/trait(s) from the usual traits stuff (which i recently modified a lot, at last with versions 1.99.9-2.1) causes the crash-issue, but not my new triggers/traits.

I'll load up v2.2 in some minutes.

---

EDIT

V 2.2 uploaded.

Edit: Still valid, please inform about the turn you reached when you post here about v2.2.

[DaVinci]

V 2.3 uploaded. As usual everything in first post.

... common gameplay and lore immersion once more a lot improved ... forget the former version(s).

--

Edit:
So with the update some good side factions are a bit better setted compared to the former balancing (and also more interesting to play, still Eriador/Arnor is the focus, but hell of attractive is clearly also Gondor and Rohan, and still for the extra challenge ie. Dale, SE, ...)
I would like to get now again some player reports about their experience and observations for the campaign-flow (i playtest myself of course, but more different views are always very helpful). Purpose is, that i probably do still two updates (2.5 then really final), and main content will be finetuning for the balancing ... but just along the core idea of the submod, the quasi lore-proper gameplay, ie. bad would be if good side player have a significant easier walk than before, while it is intended that they hold out as long as possible and give the evil side factions some blows, and well, in the end the good side (player) shall win

[skullripper]

trying to find some sparetime to play between school and cross-country but keep up the good work

[Aringtoit]

2.2 was working fine. No ctd when the OoG were destroyed this time. Not even any ctds during multiple army sieges!

Maybe it was just my campaign, but I noticed that the OoG and OoMM were a little tougher and more aggresive, which is good imo. Rohan's kicking Isengard's butt as of turn 85 (they've taken Duneard), and I'm (Eriador) moving in on them now.

Going to end that campaign and restart with 2.3. It's a good mod and I'll let you know about 2.3 when I get a chance.

[DaVinci]

Aringtoit, all balancing changes which you encounter are due to my tweaks - they are multiple, i can't list all details in the changelog, impossible.

V 2.4 will be still more amazing ... playtesting myself of course as this is my experience-base for the design per update.
The next update though will also contain some recruitment corrections (already done) for 2.3 - no real bugs, but oversights in 2.3 which negated Rohan unit recruitment for Eriador in Enedwaith and Riddermark regions.

In your 2.2 camp, did Rohan also take Isengard itself in mid 80 turns, already?
Isengard is gradually "dis-sharpened" by me in the recent versions, as they have been quite overpowered (by me), so it's good to hear that Rohan AI is able to give them a blow in the later turns (80's, as you say), although Isengard expands heavily and is pretty strong in the first 70 turns, it is not the case in the 70s that Rohan presses Isengard dangerously, Rohan holds very good though just because Mordor is more busy and can't act deeply in Rohan as they could in recent versions, Rohan even sends some aid into Anorien, in my 2.3/2.35 Eriador campaign at least - i (Eriador) have all hands to do vs Isengard and OoG still in the 70s, but now i start to strike back and start to be able to secure some conquests. That was the plan in this regard, camp gameplay along lore: Isengard very strong (expanding a lot), but Isengard AI shall fall in the end by Rohan and Eriador->Arnor->Reunited Kingdom

Rhun is now also a major power house (they were always, but not so significant in global statistics, now they are or develop to them), although i tried to help Dale with some tweaks and subtracted one region-gift for Rhun, Rhun comes now second to Mordor regarding the evil side camp statistics, but also Harad presses Gondor, Gondor holds better now vs. Mordor and Harad, btw. ... i have always local spies at least in Anorien, asap.

This said, i think i upload in some minutes v2.35 as in-between-version, it provides the above mentioned correction besides small other improvements.

--

Update v2.35 uploaded.

[Aringtoit]

Really like the changes in 2.3. Like the new Eriador units, especially the Arthedain Horsemen. Only on turn 20 something and I'm being pressed by the OoMM and Isengard. Now 2.35 is out so I'll have to start again! Personally, as Eriador, I like the Isengard units tough. You can't really take Isengard on until you've got a decent army, and it would be very hard to take them out before becoming Arnor.

In 2.2, Rohan took Duneard by turn 70. With me starting to move in, things looked bad for Saruman. Mordor had taken Minas Tirith and killed Denethor and, as mentioned, I wiped out the OoG with no ctds.

Keep it up DaVinci!

[skullripper]

i have some sugggestions for units (may be a little weird)
Eriador skirmishers on a horse
Hobbit cavarly
Eriador swordsmen/axemen
just ideas

[DaVinci]

Next last updates will primarily include balancing finetuning.

This is for example:

Unit stats, combat
- Nerf some Mordor unit stats of at least their most heavy units.
- Nerf some Harad unit stats.
- Nerf some Rhun unit stats.

Recruitment
- Looking at certain evil side factions, replenishment and numbers, perhaps also costs.

Background: V 2.3/2.35 provides a bit of more help for good side factions, but still evil side factions are very superior from certain turns on, ie. around turn 90 - 100, good side factions, especially Gondor (and Dale anyway is pretty much reduced by Rhun), start to loose their key settlements vs. Mordor and Harad. Rohan starts to loose bordering settlements to Isengard. Goal is to delay that tendency still more.

As for the unit suggestions above, those would mainly require to implement complete new units, and that's not content of this submod (as of yet, at least). Further on, some of your ideas do not match at all lore background, so they are no-go ( "Hobbit Cavalry" ).
Hm, Eriador Swordsmen/Axemen ... they are there in principle (Bree Heavy Militia is a swordsmen, Greenway Guards (foot) are polearm units, real Axemen is there as Cardolan Retainer, and anyway the Woodsmen). Eriador Skirmisher (horse) is there in "person" of Aragorn's and Halbarad's mounted Grey Company, just not as regular unit, and they would merely overpower an Eriador player. Else, Eriador can recruit later the Rohan mounted javeliner (Rohirrim) in according areas (have to look still though if they are not solely for Arnor available, if yes, i'll think about to make them available for Eriador as well, but at such a camp stand that Eriador can secure according regions with such advanced Rohan unit recruitment, Eriador should be turned into Arnor already, and then has really enough units available).

Edit:

But here is a question.
I thought about the idea to negate the AI setup regarding the region gifts at game-start, completely.
How is the opinion about it?
You can see the difference when you toggle_fow (console_command, check M2TW workshop for disabling the fog of war) prior to end_turn in the initial starting game turn. I reduced the scripted region-gifts already in this submod, but maybe they should go completely?

[DaVinci]

Update v2.4 uploaded.

Regarding the above mentioned goal to delay evil faction power, here i did at first an improvement for certain factions (unit stats, most respectively Dale and Gondor). If that won't help accordingly, then the nerfing of some evil faction units comes into regard.

[Aringtoit]

With the updates coming fast and furious, I've never had a chance to get past turn 80 something. As Eriador, I haven't faced Mordor yet.

In the latest versions, the OoG and OoMM seem tougher/more aggressive, but Isengard seems weaker. I like a tough Isengard. It's Lore accurate. In 2.3, I've taken North and South Tharbad and Duneard's wide open. Haven't been toggling FOW so I don't know what Isengard's doing with their troops. If Rohan's pressing them from the South, I don't know how Saruman survives for long (I'm on turn 54).

From an Eriador perspective, I think the OoG and OoMM are about right now. Imo, if any faction should be "gifted" regions, it should be Isengard. Their position on the map has always been the toughest for an evil faction (that's why Saruman was always getting killed early game in vanilla). Just my opinion.

Things are looking good though DaVinci. The mod's really shaping up well. I'll end my 2.3 campaign now and start 2.4...if you can keep it up, I can!

[Heptagenia]

[QUOTE=Aringtoit;12085820]With the updates coming fast and furious, I've never had a chance to get past turn 80 something. As Eriador, I haven't faced Mordor yet.

Exactly:

[DaVinci]

With the updates coming fast and furious, I've never had a chance to get past turn 80 something. As Eriador, I haven't faced Mordor yet.

In the latest versions, the OoG and OoMM seem tougher/more aggressive, but Isengard seems weaker. I like a tough Isengard. It's Lore accurate. In 2.3, I've taken North and South Tharbad and Duneard's wide open. Haven't been toggling FOW so I don't know what Isengard's doing with their troops. If Rohan's pressing them from the South, I don't know how Saruman survives for long (I'm on turn 54).

From an Eriador perspective, I think the OoG and OoMM are about right now. Imo, if any faction should be "gifted" regions, it should be Isengard. Their position on the map has always been the toughest for an evil faction (that's why Saruman was always getting killed early game in vanilla). Just my opinion.

Things are looking good though DaVinci. The mod's really shaping up well. I'll end my 2.3 campaign now and start 2.4...if you can keep it up, I can!

Isengard:
- They were really overpowered formerly, but you are right now with your observation for the very recent versions regarding Argond/Tharbad ... Dunland area.
- The reason is because their heavily armed units (Uruk-Kai Infantry, Pike and Crossbow) are now only in Isengard available, the Orthanc was already anyway, but i also delayed their recruitment, point is if i don't do it, Rohan AI is doomed pretty soon (a no-go for me). Those units can't be matched by Rohan AI, if they appear as it was in earlier versions (and see also Rohan below).
- I could increase at least Dunlending recruitment, so the border to Eriador is bit more dangerous as now for the Eriador player. If i do much more in this regard, you as Eriador player would have biggest problems vs OoG, OoMM and Isengard, even with the new militia recruitment for Eriador, just both Orc factions are now able to recruit far earlier "quality" units as in earlier versions ... while if one can manage to not fight with OoMM (or just first pretty late), then it is good feasable now to expand as Eriador player, also if Isengard attacks and OoG watches for your lands pretty quick ... and btw., Isengard sends their most heavy units also at me into Eriador, i actually wonder how the AI is doing it, but statistics say quick that Isengard is ruling financially, so the Isengard settlement itself can put out unit after unit, but just not anymore that quick and much their super-units).
- Saruman can survive very very very long, the only way to kick Isengard down soon in the submod would be to play Rohan and take it just asap with all available craft, but then perhaps the Rohan player looses regions to Mordor in the same time.
- If you wanna watch Isengard's units (where they are and act, just send out your spies).

Rohan:
- Now the balance makes them at war again pretty soon with Mordor. Rohan even managed it to make peace with Isengard just as for war with Mordor.
- They hold better now vs Isengard because see above point Isengard.

Eriador player (bold part):
- You could face Mordor soon, if you act with Aragorn and Gandalf, where they are at the start (it's what i do), instead of going back to Eriador (as the AI does).
- First i take the Limlight castle, act a bit in the area, also help Rohan vs. Mordor in some initial skirmishes, and then later ie. i conquered even Beorn Halls.
- Else, see above point Isengard. And that's what i want: Eriador player ( me ) shall be able to turn into Arnor short after turn 100, or just even sooner, if he manages it to prepare Annuminas accordingly. And when it happens, Rohan and Gondor shall be alive still (also SE and Dwarves ... Dale most probably can't, HE have no real problems, as for their map position).

Region gifts:
I like your suggestion with only Isengard. But for now i decided to only nerf Rhun in this regard, i'll disable the region gift for them completely to delay them vs Dale, which suffer at most/quickest in this submod, equal what i do balancing-wise for them (as of yet), and of course i don't want to overpowering Dale artificially with extreme changes.

But ... Rhun got now aleady (internal version) some unit stat nerfs as well, which are also necessary (and i even expect they remain the powerhouse and still overrun Dale).

---

As for the many updates:
I want to have the submod finished very soon, as time is short in the next time, i just use/d a time-window for this submod. Actually i wanted to stop the submod latest this weekend, latest. So i'm sorry, but i think i'll release still today v2.45 (edit: a very maybe only, time is too short, do not expect it this weekend), and then the final v2.5 will come perhaps next weekend, as tomorrow and the whole upcoming is no time available for playtesting/modding.

[DaVinci]

Update v2.45 uploaded.

Contains balancing according to the above mentioned spots.

Edit: So this version is really pre-final. Please provide me again some according hints along your campaign experience, that i can finalize the finetuning for the special balance of this submod.
You'll have enough time now, i won't touch v2.45 for a good time.

[Aringtoit]

Downloading 2.45 now.

2.4 is looking good. The OoG can't be taken down as quickly because there's a big garrison in Carn Doom. I'm fighting a 2 front war now against Isengard and the OoG. Had a pyhric victory against Isengard outside of Duneard against dome GOOD units (their Pikemen and Uruk Hai are tough). Almost lost Gandalf! I'm on turn 59 now and still have to take out the OoG to become Arnor. Still a way off.

Just a suggestion--let us have a little more time to get deeper into a campaign before you release 2.5 if that's the final. This way we can give you a better idea of the whole picture.

[Heptagenia]

Downloading 2.45 now.



Just a suggestion--let us have a little more time to get deeper into a campaign before you release 2.5 if that's the final. This way we can give you a better idea of the whole picture.

Edit:I must say excellent mod