TATW Realism+ /Final/ [TATW 3.2]

[Aringtoit]

Just a thought--I haven't had any battle crashes since I installed the new edu file, but when I was getting them I got them before the enemy general died and the game cuts to a close up of the enemy general dying. If I made it through that, the game wouldn't crash. I know nothing about modding, but maybe the changes you made somehow effect the game when the enemy general is killed/captured.

Anyway, I'm on turn 85 as Eriador with the new edu and no crashes. I saw Saruman walking around though! Elrond hasn't moved and is holed up in Imladris with a huge garrison.

[Aringtoit]

Got my 1st crash on turn 92. Happened when I charged the Woodland Hunter (archers). Been saving the game before battles just in case, so I replayed the battle without charging the archers and no crash. Just to test, replayed it again and charged the Rangers. It crashed. Played it one more time without charging any archers and no problem again. Got a Heroic Victory.

This seems in line with what Heptagenia's saying about charging archers. This is with the latest edu file btw.

[DaVinci]

Hep, what do you mean exactly with

an enemy group routs at a time.

... group = unit or parts of the AI army?

Aringtoit, and when you charge with archers, did it crash in that very moment or when the AI starts to rout?

We have here obviously two observations still, 1. AI routs, crash; 2. charge with any kind of (foot!) archer units, crash.

2nd case archer-charge is not clear if crash is caused by the charge-command-moment or due to AI starts routing in that moment, and if the latter, then it is only one crash-reason, but probably dependent on archer-charge.

We have to find out, if it is a. AI routs/crash, b. archer-charge/crash or c. archer-charge+AI routs/crash or even d. a (random) mix of all situations.

[Heptagenia]

Hep, what do you mean exactly with ?

Aringtoit, and when you charge with archers, did it crash in that very moment or when the AI starts to rout?

We have here obviously two observations still, 1. AI routs, crash; 2. charge with any kind of (foot!) archer units, crash.

2nd case archer-charge is not clear if crash is caused by the charge-command-moment or due to AI starts routing in that moment, and if the latter, then it is only one crash-reason, but probably dependent on archer-charge.

We have to find out, if it is a. AI routs/crash, b. archer-charge/crash or c. archer-charge+AI routs/crash or even d. a mix of all situations.

Yes i mean group = unit of the AI army?, what I can see, after many attempts c is the key/ Hep

[DaVinci]

Well, then let's verify it ... ie. that at least Aringtoit confirms point c is the thing.
Oh, and please test it also in custom battle, imo. the same must happen there (as AoR units are no_custom coded = not custom battle access, just test it with any archer units available, at best you choose similar unit-consistence per army along your campaign battle experiences).


Afterwards we can test the archer phenomen, i already know what's to do to check that out.
And btw., it has then nothing to do with added AoR units, means attachment of post #113 is obsolete for testing separately, i'll remove attachment if we have the verification that c is the case to fix.

[Aringtoit]

Just did two custom, battles as Eriador vs OoG--same standard units for both (3 spears, 1 General's BG, 1 Heavy Merchant cav, 2 Woodsman, 1 Woodland Hunters (archers) and 1 Rangers). 1st game I charged the Rangers before the orcs were routing and the game crashed. 2nd game I didn't charge archers and I won a clear victory.

Seems to confirm that charging archers have a lot to do with it. You're the expert though.

[DaVinci]

Ok, thank you.

I would like to know if somebody experienced such archer-charge crash, if not the human player charges with an archer unit, but when the AI charges with them.

[DaVinci]

Battle Crash Fix

for current version 1.99 (campaign and custom battles aka all battles).

New edu file: Temporary valid, until v2.0 is released.

Unzip the attachment, and put the edu file into the data folder of Third_Age_3 mods folder, overwrite. Saved game compatible.

Credits for this fix go to Aringtoit, Heptagenia and Emrys for their dedicated battle testing, provided me the certain hints for this fix.
The culprit has been certain officer changes for some archer units, a small simple thing with big affect. And to make sure such battle crashes can't happen anymore, i disabled all officer changes done by me (even if they work apparently without issues for non-missile units).


Attachment removed, obsolete (fix in v1.99.5 included).

[Aringtoit]

Just fought a custom battle with the new edu. Charged Woodland Hunters and Rangers (1 at a time, then both together) and no ctd. Looks like the problem's solved! I'll continue the campaign and keep you posted.

Thanks.

[DaVinci]

Thank you, your second last post gave me the kick to fix the thing, and now you'll do the quality-control of my fix claim with your further playtesting.
Btw., the 1st post credits part is changed accordingly.

With 99 % probability the battle crashes, we have discussed here for a few pages, are solved (although i did only one custom battle test before and one after the fix/es).

[Heptagenia]

i did a test with the old savefile (i always got ctd with)with the new battlecrash fix. no ctd now good jobb. fantastic mod

[skullripper]

i got an error when i was in the deploment zone with gandalf when i was attacking duneard. i have 3 rohan cav 3 rohan axemen 3 rohan swordsmen 1 ent and 2 woodland hunters. i installed the battle fix post.

[DaVinci]

i got an error when i was in the deploment zone with gandalf when i was attacking duneard. i have 3 rohan cav 3 rohan axemen 3 rohan swordsmen 1 ent and 2 woodland hunters. i installed the battle fix post.

At first some questions:
With deployment zone, you mean pre-battle before you drop "Start Battle"?
What was the error? Message-text or any according log-entry? (I very much assume the Ent recruitment aka Ent usage in-battle is the reason for the error message).
Is this the first time you are using Ent unit in campaign battle mode?

You are pretty deep into an Eriador campaign, right? However, for the first time somebody mentions the for this submod added Ent recruitment (which is rarely possible in the later campaign phase), and is not tested "live" for the campaign mode.

Question to others: Anybody else achieved this stand in his Eriador campaign, and got the option to recruit Ents? And used them in-battle?

Skullripper, do the following:
Disband the Ent unit (alternative, hold that unit out of the settlement-attacking army), and attack again the settlement in the same manner, report back asap, what happened.
Also, if you have the time and possibility, please load up (ie. attachment) the saved game prior to that settlement-attack.

[Aringtoit]

Just to tell you how my Eriador campaign's going--I'm on turn 72. No crashes (except for vanilla reinforcing army siege bug), I'm destroyng the OoG who only throw skirmishes at me for the most part (I'm taking my time on purpose), OoMM and Isengard haven't made a move against me, Rohan's dead, Gondor's lost it's capital and Isengard's at war with Mordor.

I assume I'll face tougher units when I go for Isengard/Mordor, but should Isengard and Mordor be at war with each other??

No charging archer crashes and I've charged them several times. That problem's fixed imo.

[skullripper]

My eriador campaign is at turn 80 i control all the way from ruskea vene to lond angren and from eryn vorn to hoarwell, i surrounded gundabad and im helping to destroy isengard, i just turned into arnor. dale was destroyed.

[DaVinci]

Thanks skullripper and Aringtoit (skullripper added to the credits part because reporting about the Ents content, was much desired by me).
Then all is fine regarding crash-things in this submod, they are gone finally, and i'm glad the Ent content works.


As for global balancing things, ie. Mordor/Isengard, and also OoG etc.:

# If OoG and OoMM AI would get quick access to their most heavy units, then good side AI factions would have no chance at all aka would leave Middle-earth still earlier as now. Isengard and Mordor (of Orcish evil factions) shall be the powers.
# Isengard war with Mordor happens due to sharing borders during the campaign, when Rohan is erased, i assume - i'll try to make them more aligned in their behaviour even if they share borders.
# What's going on with the Elven factions and Dwarves?
# Aringtoit's report: Hm, i don't like it really, that Rohan dies until ca. turn 70, which happens due to the 2-front war vs. Isengard and Mordor, i have to think about it.
# Question/s to skullripper: Is Isengard at war with Mordor in your campaign as well? And Gondor lost its capital already? (Btw., as long Gondor is not totally weakened, they have the chance to get back Minas Tirith, i saw that once). Is Rohan dead already, in your campaign as well?
# Skullripper: You turned into Arnor, everything right, no issues in this regard? Ie. what are your bodyguards now?

# As you can see, you both play Eriador, and campaign-outcome rolls out differently, it is actually always dependent on player's behaviour, but also chosen camp difficulty has its impact. Btw., what are your chosen campaign difficulties?

# Do you guys have suggestions for the balancing, ie. units in particular or faction-wise?

[DaVinci]

V 1.99.5 uploaded, as always changelog in 1st post.
The complete fixed submod. Should be the last beta pre-2.0.

...wanted to get it out prior to weekend.

[Aringtoit]

I've been taking it slow and easy as Eriador. The mod's a good one. I assumed that he quality of units faced would get better when facing Isengard/Mordor (which I haven't done yet). Maybe the OoG/OoMM could be a little tougher because I've yet to fight a defensive battle against either no matter how big their stack. It's almost always stalkers, skirmishes and snaga archers. The OoG are dead and I'm about to become Arnor. Maybe if Orc Spearmen, Maulers and Wargs were a little more numerous they'd have held out longer and/or attacked me more.

I'll see how it goes against Isengard and Mordor. Looks like the Silvan Elves and High Elves seem to be holding their own. Dale and the Dwarves are non-factors so far and about to go soon. Rohan's dead and Gondor's in trouble. Think it IS going to be up to me to save Middle Earth!

Edit--I'm playing on Medium/Hard btw.

[skullripper]

Isengard is not at war with mordor, Gondor has not lost any territories only cair andros a osgiliath, rohan is still alive(i fund there war effort), I have no error with arnor. I play m/m long.

1 suggestion Can you make dale and silvans a tiny bit stronger they get steam rolled by 50 turns.

[DaVinci]

Thanks for descriptions and proposals.

Very interesting how different Gondor plays out in your Eriador campaigns on M camp difficulty, i'm stunning, also about the different Elven's outcomes.

I'll change something according to your posts (but not for Gondor, as there are changes already with 1.99.5), besides i want change a bit of Arnor's low unit class recruitment for certain areas (already in work), then this will be uploaded as another in-between version prior to 2.0.