TATW Realism+ /Final/ [TATW 3.2]

[Aringtoit]

Downloaded 1.97. Got a crash on turn 15 as SE. Went to autosave, began where I left off and no crashes since. I'm on turn 35 now.

[Aringtoit]

Had another crash on turn 38. Took 3 times hitting autosave for the game to move on. On turn 50 now. I'll keep you posted.

[Emrys]

Crash at turn 122. Can't reload save.

[DaVinci]

Thanks for playesting/reporting, guys. I'll later put everybody who reports about stability-playtesting into a credits-list, if they have delivered the crash-parameters (faction, crash turn, error-message, reloadable, and eventually the log-entry).

One thing seems to be clear, different players of different factions have not the same frequence of crashes, and then also a different kind of crash, ie. Emrys plays Gondor which runs fine until turn 122 and afterwards the crash causes a non-reloadable stand, and Aringtoit has typical auto-save crashes and far earlier.

Important question is also if you had have already similar experiences with M2TW vanilla (plus any mods or not), TATW 3.2 vanilla and/or other submods on it.

Currently the causes can be multiple, ie. M2 core game, TATW vanilla, Realism+ submod or just a combi or even common hardware/software items, while i estimate that my submod version(s) post v1.8 are responsible.

As routine-check:
Please open ...\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\logs\system.log.txt

If you can, load up the txt file as attachment or simply copy and paste the content into a post.

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One hint still: Reloading the mod properly requires always that the game is fully exited and completely started anew (contrary to starting anew from the game menu or within the campaign).

[DaVinci]

Version comparison testing #1

Attached is here TATW Realism+ v1.8 (which should contain less changes to TATW 3.2 with "sensible" background).
Installation etc. is the same as described in the 1st post EDIT ... but first overwrite with the Backup attachment in 1st post and afterwards overwrite with v1.8.

It'll be interesting to find out if this stand as well comes with crashes (and if yes, which kind of crash) or not.

So i beg a few who are interested to help encircling possible bugs to playtesting that version and report about the stability (relevance: faction, crash turn, error-message, reloadable, and eventually the log-entry).

Edit: Attachment removed (testing this is probably obsolete now).

[Heptagenia]

[QUOTE=DaVinci;11942207]Question: Stability campaign mode



it is now v1.97/ and i'm getting crashes without according log entry which could give me an idea (it is "unspecified error"). I'm currently getting a crash within the first 10 turns, mostly already with end_turn 1->2 when all factions are through right after Sauron/Rebels.

Same for me /Hep

[DaVinci]

[QUOTE=Heptagenia;11946961]

Question: Stability campaign mode



it is now v1.97/ and i'm getting crashes without according log entry which could give me an idea (it is "unspecified error"). I'm currently getting a crash within the first 10 turns, mostly already with end_turn 1->2 when all factions are through right after Sauron/Rebels.

Same for me /Hep

You mean with the at last by me uploaded v1.97 your game crashes initially within the first few turns? This is something new then, because i referred (your quote of my post content) to an internal version which is not the same as the uploaded 1.97.

However, players then should try the above attached v1.8.

I'll also wait still on some more playtesting-reports of 1.97 before i disable the current download link for 1.97 in 1st post (and just afterwards providing a new submod build).

[Aringtoit]

Still playing 1.97 as SE. On turn 45 and no crashes since turn 38 except for in battle crash which is probably that reinforcing army thing that's a problem with vanilla.

One thing I've noticed is that although it takes the SE 2 turns to recruit, when you click on a settlement the unit pictures say 1 turn to recruit. When you put the curser over the unit pic for details it says 2 turns. Don't know if this has anything to do with it.

I'll keep updating when possible.

[DaVinci]

Still playing 1.97 as SE. On turn 45 and no crashes since turn 38 except for in battle crash which is probably that reinforcing army thing that's a problem with vanilla.

One thing I've noticed is that although it takes the SE 2 turns to recruit, when you click on a settlement the unit pictures say 1 turn to recruit. When you put the curser over the unit pic for details it says 2 turns. Don't know if this has anything to do with it.

I'll keep updating when possible.

Well, this is not turns but number of units availability, just 1 unit is recruitable then, no problem there

What confuses me indeed, is the fact that the released v1.97 gives that different campaign-stability results, per chosen faction.

And you, Aringtoit have reported as of yet solely the typical autosave-process crash, which is known for M2TW aka all TW games, and probably this autosave-crash tendency is more probable or lets say not less probable with mods installed

Emsys' last report of a very late crash in turn 122 and save not reloadable is another thing, those crashes have usually indeed to do with something that is caused by coding/scripting (rather scripting as coding would usually cause a crash earlier) or a typical save-game corruption (the official TATW bug report thread, ie. G5 tells something about that, too, in his thread about stability etc.).

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Edit: I've just edited post #65 for the ones who try v1.8, please apply first the Backup attachment in 1st post before you apply v1.8.

[Heptagenia]

I play Eriador and i'm getting crashes right after Sauron/Rebels within the first turns. I play 1.97.

[DaVinci]

I play Eriador and i'm getting crashes right after Sauron/Rebels within the first turns. I play 1.97.

Totally crazy, have to confirm that suddenly ... while formerly my Eriador-tests prior to 1.97 upload were fine (edit: must have been luck, as ie. no missions were fired in this few turns).

I just started as well Eriador and got a crash "unspecified error" in the first initial end-turn while/after Sauron...Rebels runs through.

Well, i take that as fact that the build is bugged. I'll disable the download link for now. Bughunting ... .

And all players who installed a version which crashes (unusually), apply the Backup attachment of 1st post.

All others who wanna playtest atm., go to post #65 and try v1.8. Please keep me informed about stability.

[DaVinci]

Possible fix for the submod build 1.97

It's crazy, i just replaced the by me modified missions file (the unit reward removal) with the TATW 3.2 vanilla missions file, and then ... Eriador works normal again, no initial crash (i compared 3 campaign-starts).

What i do now is enabling the dl of 1.97 again, and will attach the said vanilla missions file to the first post as temp fix.
Everybody who has installed 1.97 should overwrite TATW/data/descr_missions.txt with that attachment, and try version 1.97 once again.

I'm curious if that simple fix solves the instability of the recent version(s) (iirc. the crash anger started first after i modified/integrated the modified missions file).

EDIT

Just to inform, it seems the missions file fix works for v1.97, i played Eriador now until turn 25, and not a single issue.

[DaVinci]

Eriador, turn 45 ... not a single issue. I like to declare the submod v1.97 fixed, guess with 90 % it was the missions file change with v1.95 provoking campaign-crashes. I'll update to v1.98 tomorrow or so.

[Emrys]

I just played through Gondor w/ new file. After speeding/autowinning through the turns no crashes even after turn 150

[MrExpendable]

This submod is getting along nicely, but I got some things to report regarding unit balance. I'm testing units in custom battles, and tweaking them along the way to my own insights.

Fountain Guard:
Get lock_morale attribute and their unit size is 80. They seem to be either OP or underpriced. My personal tweak: removed lock_morale and changing their unit size to 48.

Dismounted Swan Knights:
Come at a size of 60, while being just a little bit more expensive then Gondor Infantry. Their stats are a bit too high for that, I think. My personal tweak: Changed their size to 48.

Dismounted Dunedain Knights:
Stats are worse in comparison to Gondor infantry, while coming at a higher cost and smaller unit size. My personal tweak: Same stats as Dismounted Swan Knights, plus the possibility to upgrade armour +1.

I'm careful with adding lock_morale to units, as I don't really know how to rebalance prices accordingly. Since units with lock_morale are many times more dangerous, they should also come at a higher cost. But having some of the elite units have locked morale may be a nice option. I think that especially elite Dwarf/Eldar/Sindarin/Dunedain units should have locked morale.

That was all.

[DaVinci]

I just played through Gondor w/ new file. After speeding/autowinning through the turns no crashes even after turn 150

That was with 1.97 plus the missions fix file applied, right? Good, strenghens my assumption that the whole crash-bug was solely due to the missions file.

This submod is getting along nicely, but I got some things to report regarding unit balance. I'm testing units in custom battles, and tweaking them along the way to my own insights.

Fountain Guard:
Get lock_morale attribute and their unit size is 80. They seem to be either OP or underpriced. My personal tweak: removed lock_morale and changing their unit size to 48.

Dismounted Swan Knights:
Come at a size of 60, while being just a little bit more expensive then Gondor Infantry. Their stats are a bit too high for that, I think. My personal tweak: Changed their size to 48.

Dismounted Dunedain Knights:
Stats are worse in comparison to Gondor infantry, while coming at a higher cost and smaller unit size. My personal tweak: Same stats as Dismounted Swan Knights, plus the possibility to upgrade armour +1.

I'm careful with adding lock_morale to units, as I don't really know how to rebalance prices accordingly. Since units with lock_morale are many times more dangerous, they should also come at a higher cost. But having some of the elite units have locked morale may be a nice option. I think that especially elite Dwarf/Eldar/Sindarin/Dunedain units should have locked morale.

That was all.

Well, custom battles as unit balancing area is a basis test field to observe the very basic capabilities of a certain unit or units, campaign battles otherwise come along with a lot of different parameters, this is mere two worlds. I always balance the whole thing (the whole picture along the mod design), this is of course including unit stats but with the background of my campaign goals as main direction-giver. I'll look into the Dismounted Dunedain Knights though being more worse than Gondor Inf, that should be tweaked indeed.
Look, i assume you are a Gondor player, from this perspective it makes sense to tweak units along your insights, otherwise (if not a dedicated Gondor player) the AI campaign outcome is decisive for a campaign mod with the announced design goals. What you do then with such unit tweaks is similar to faction-mod design, where just the human player plays solely that said faction, and in this sense the reference faction is here mere Eriador/Arnor with option of Reunited Kingdom (ie. the ZoR/AoR of Rohan and Gondor units and other ones). Btw., you (and every other one who like this submod) are free to make your own sub-submods as you fit and release them, but then i would wait until i say it is final ( it's not long to that stand, as i plan to ending the TATW Realism+ modding with v2.0 ).

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I'll update to 1.98 today, the fixed missions file thing with very small other changes only.

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V 1.98 is uploaded.

[MrExpendable]

That was with 1.97 plus the missions fix file applied, right? Good, strenghens my assumption that the whole crash-bug was solely due to the missions file.



Well, custom battles as unit balancing area is a basis test field to observe the very basic capabilities of a certain unit or units, campaign battles otherwise come along with a lot of different parameters, this is mere two worlds. I always balance the whole thing (the whole picture along the mod design), this is of course including unit stats but with the background of my campaign goals as main direction-giver. I'll look into the Dismounted Dunedain Knights though being more worse than Gondor Inf, that should be tweaked indeed.
Look, i assume you are a Gondor player, from this perspective it makes sense to tweak units along your insights, otherwise (if not a dedicated Gondor player) the AI campaign outcome is decisive for a campaign mod with the announced design goals. What you do then with such unit tweaks is similar to faction-mod design, where just the human player plays solely that said faction, and in this sense the reference faction is here mere Eriador/Arnor with option of Reunited Kingdom (ie. the ZoR/AoR of Rohan and Gondor units and other ones). Btw., you (and every other one who like this submod) are free to make your own sub-submods as you fit and release them, but then i would wait until i say it is final ( it's not long to that stand, as i plan to ending the TATW Realism+ modding with v2.0 ).

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I'll update to 1.98 today, the fixed missions file thing with very small other changes only.

---
V 1.98 is uploaded.

I do play Gondor the most often in TATW. The changes I made for some of the units were mostly focused around custom battles. I could see if I can change some of the unit costs to be better balanced for custom battles (I like playing them, as well as MP). Then I could release it as a sub-submod. That way, the campaign mechanics would still be the same. Thanks for making this stuff free to re-use for any other modders btw.

I'm going to try the new version, this time actually playing more then a few turns in the campaign with some of the good factions.

[Aringtoit]

The missions file fixed the problem with my 1.97 SE campaign. No more crashes and I played till turn 88.

Started an Eriador campaign though and got an in battle crash while fighting my 1st battle (taking the Barrow Downs). Happened twice in a row. Seems to happen when either Gandalf engages or one of the generals I have with the army engages. I only made one change and that was increasing Dismounted Dunedain's stats to match Dismounted Swan Knight's stats as per Mr Expendable's post above. From the posts, I seem to be the only one having this problem though so it could be just me.

FYI-"And you, Aringtoit have reported as of yet solely the typical autosave-process crash"

Think you misunderstood. I was saying that after it crashed normally, I went to Autosave and resumed the game at the point where it crashed without it crashing again for a number of turns. Being able to continue from the point where it crashed using autosave saved the problem from being a game stopper. This was before the missions file fix which took care of the crashes for the SE.

Going to try to fight that battle again and see if it crashes again. I'll let you know. 1st time I've gotten an in battle crash with your mod without there being a relieving army involved. It's an "unspecified error" crash btw. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[DaVinci]

The missions file fixed the problem with my 1.97 SE campaign. No more crashes and I played till turn 88.

Started an Eriador campaign though and got an in battle crash while fighting my 1st battle (taking the Barrow Downs). Happened twice in a row. Seems to happen when either Gandalf engages or one of the generals I have with the army engages. I only made one change and that was increasing Dismounted Dunedain's stats to match Dismounted Swan Knight's stats as per Mr Expendable's post above. From the posts, I seem to be the only one having this problem though so it could be just me.

FYI-"And you, Aringtoit have reported as of yet solely the typical autosave-process crash"

Think you misunderstood. I was saying that after it crashed normally, I went to Autosave and resumed the game at the point where it crashed without it crashing again for a number of turns. Being able to continue from the point where it crashed using autosave saved the problem from being a game stopper. This was before the missions file fix which took care of the crashes for the SE.

Going to try to fight that battle again and see if it crashes again. I'll let you know. 1st time I've gotten an in battle crash with your mod without there being a relieving army involved. It's an "unspecified error" crash btw. I'll let you know how it turns out.

The campaign-crashes are past with v1.98, and i strongly think for all factions, as the missions file is faction-free. I continued an Eriador campaign until turn 70 and bit higher (played pretty neutrally to observe stability and AI outcome), no issues.

As mainly Eriador player i battled there x-times without ever having issues ... atm. i can't see any source for your battle-crash, as there are no changes done for a while for Gandalf or his bg's or other Eriador bg's, except Halbarad, but i played battles afterwards and had have no issues. If a certain unit is possibly a culprit, then you can also try them via custom battle, iirc. all those Eriador units are accessable via custom battle incl. added bg's. The according rebel units are not touched at all by me. So what is left here would be perhaps character traits regarding battles. This said, i'll then as well playtest Eriador again as next campaign (last time playtests, see above, i autocalced), and going quick for Barrow Downs, which is usually the first mission, while the in-battle crash normally can't have to do with the missions file (and i really doubt that the missions file can still provoke a crash), quicker goes an in-battle-test with Gandalf and whomever vs. Bandits which are hidden in forest-pieces at roads, one is between Breeland and Shire, pretty close to Bree ... use your spy. However, i never had issues there.

[DaVinci]

Double-post, upps. Next one is the according post.