TATW Realism+ /Final/ [TATW 3.2]

[DaVinci]

... most important is that this submod is installed on TATW 3.2 vanilla (means unmodified).
If you like, you can add but a pure music submod or just a pure front-end (ui) submod, while everything else which changes the actual TATW mod content won't work properly with TATW Realism+.

I just checked my install-instructions of the 1st post once more and realised, they weren't 100% clear - this is improved now.
And you are not dumb ... i formerly really forgot to mention in these instructions that the dl file is a main zip file, which contains the actual submod as another zip file (plus the readme and backup zip file).
I'll most probably change that file structure for the next (final) release incl. the file names, so everything goes easier, or possibly if i have enough time, i provide an exe-setup (installer).

[Eönwë]

Haha an installer would be nice cause most players are used to that..
Is there a list of units you added? I read the whole changelog but couldn't find it?

[DaVinci]

Haha an installer would be nice cause most players are used to that..
Is there a list of units you added? I read the whole changelog but couldn't find it?

If you ask for added units in the sense of new models or skins, there aren't any (as of yet, because i have the plan to add some for v2.5).

There is no list of "added" units, just because i re-organised recruitment out of the existing TATW unit data, i speak of new unit entries, not added units in the meaning of new units, sounds complicate? Yes, probably it is
The 1st post says it under features: ZoR and AoR is changed a lot, certain units change role/availability/faction etc., and another unit item is, that a few deactivated TATW unit entries have been activated by me, and quite some units got new name and description. In result, the recruitment roster is extended. I'm too lazy to make a list of that in detail, or let me say, it's enough effort/time-consumption for me to provide the submod(-releases), the changelog and thread, as currently produced and kept up

Anyways, in post 199 (page 10), i speak of "unit addition".

[Pleiades]

Hello, DaVinci. Before I try your mod, I am curious for some answers:

-Why it is M/M recommended difficulty in OP and why huge units? Will balance be changed drastically or some ugly things will happen if I play with my usual H/VH difficulty and normal units sizes?

-I would like to play with evil factions, but in OP it says it is balanced and recommended for good factions. But it was written long ago in OP. At this stage of mod development, is it possible to have enjoyable game with evil factions?

Off topic - according to your OP and many posts here, you seem like a decent and polite guy, with very nice systematic approach to things, modding and what have you done there. I like that! Thank you.

[DaVinci]

Hello, DaVinci. Before I try your mod, I am curious for some answers:

-Why it is M/M recommended difficulty in OP and why huge units? Will balance be changed drastically or some ugly things will happen if I play with my usual H/VH difficulty and normal units sizes?

-I would like to play with evil factions, but in OP it says it is balanced and recommended for good factions. But it was written long ago in OP. At this stage of mod development, is it possible to have enjoyable game with evil factions?

Off topic - according to your OP and many posts here, you seem like a decent and polite guy, with very nice systematic approach to things, modding and what have you done there. I like that! Thank you.

Try it out as you like, and report back a feedback if you want.

Bit pre-info: Evil factions have advantages compared to Good side factions, the 1st post features are valid, while the one or other advantage is also done for good side factions to increase chances that good side AI factions live/survive as long as possible or don't vanish easily and too quick, and probably i'll try to emphasize this for certain good side factions with the next release once more. Ie. for Dale, but not for the both Elves. I aim for lore-campaign-realism, and a mighty powerful Elven empire is non-realism in this sense. Eriador, Rohan and Gondor have a proper standing in this regard as AI, i think at least.
It won't be totally easy to bring good side factions down as evil side faction. AI factions get, as you know (probably), regions-gifts with the 1st end_turn, but this reduced in this submod, and i currently think about more reduction of region-gifts, but need to consider the AI, so it is not so easy to make the right decisions in this regard.
As evil side faction, the choice H/VH (or also VH/VH) is probably the right decision to find an interesting challenge.

However, in all cases this submod provides an enjoyable campaign, but it is designed with the focus which is written in the 1st post

And thanks for the nice personal feedback in your last sentence.

[DaVinci]

Short-info:
As for the planned unit addition (see post 199, former page), i have sorted out now over 30 units from the TLK mod, which might go into the submod - there is no need for an according unit suggestion anymore.

[Eönwë]

I'm playing as Eriador, as suggested, and so far love it! Turn 35 now, got some rebel settlements taken, I like how you can't recruit/retrain units at certain settlements where you have no barracks building! Or is this a bug haha?

Aragorn has an Elven unit and a Dwarven unit, which is nice! But where can I retrain them haha?

So far no problems, I'll keep on playing! Looking forward to the new units and maybe you include the new Battle AI? So there are now CTD's in really big battles (with reinforcements)

[Aringtoit]

Been busy and haven't had time to play 2.45 till yesterday.

I'm on turn 108 and things are going well. I'm noticing that the good factions are putting up much more of a fight. Gondor's holding Minas Tirith, Rohan's holding well, the Silvan Elves are actually expanding and the only faction knocked out so far is the OoG by me (as Eriador). I'm not Arnor yet because my "buddies", the High Elves, snuck into Coldfells right after the OoG went down and they won't trade it for anything (I've offered them like 3 other territories and a lot of money. Elrond likes Coldfells it seems).

Two things I've noticed--one is that Sauron called for an invasion of Rohan and Saruman (with his immobile trait) is hanging just outside of Isengard with a huge, red eye invasion stack, unable to move with it. That's obviously helping Rohan big time. Sauron must be getting pissed.

The other is that in conquered settlements (Gundabad, Carn Dum, etc), I'm not able to recruit anything except for Woodland Hunters and Lumbermen even though they're at almost 70% Northmen now. Those settlements also don't list what I'll be able to recruit and when. I want to go after the OoMM from those settlements.

It's a good mod though. It gets progressively tougher when you face good units from Isengard and Mordor (and I haven't faced Mordor yet).

[DaVinci]

Hello Aringtoit, nice to see you again.

I'm not Arnor yet because my "buddies", the High Elves, snuck into Coldfells right after the OoG went down and they won't trade it for anything (I've offered them like 3 other territories and a lot of money. Elrond likes Coldfells it seems).

That's bad, it is subjectively relevant for Eriador to get Coldfells before HE (Elrond) can take it, it is here more important to get the required regions as to destroy a faction (OoG), so you might change your strategy in this regard for a next trial. As Eriador without turning into Arnor, you might not be able to achieve the objectives. The submod design (balance, recruitment, etc. ... hint also for your other points/questions) is done always with the background of the (changed) victory conditions, especially for Eriador/Arnor, Arnor is the faction that can sucessfully simulate the Reunited Kingdom.

[Heptagenia]

I'm playing as Eriador V 2.4: 5. Okt. 2012. Turn 60 and no problem, everything is exellent. Now i try V 2.46.

[DaVinci]

I'm playing as Eriador V 2.4: 5. Okt. 2012. Turn 60 and no problem, everything is exellent. Now i try V 2.46.

Well, indeed everybody has a lot time for playing 2.46 campaigns. The next update will take quite some time, as 1st, some common changes will be done, and 2nd unit implementation. I don't know when all this is finished for playtesting (it'll be then a v.2.4x beta prior to final v2.5).

Until now, iirc. i have only implemented 2 or 3 new units, this time they are actually new models for TATW Realism+, borrowed from TLK mod (via permission of course).
It needs time for me to decide which unit and what's their role and creating names/descriptions and change the entries/stats - everything shall fit to TATW Realism+, no (senseless) addition to provide only quantity.
Some of those units will fill recruitment gaps ie. in areas where currently no or nearly no units are available due to the changed recruitment structures for certain good side factions in TATW Realism+, the ZoR and AoR system (which will get then in result here and there new recruitment areas/new structure). Others will most likely also replace currently activated recruitable TATW units, ie. which are (only) rebel units in TATW vanilla, ie. to provide more variation per faction and area. And "subfactions" like Dunland and Rhudaur will get the one or other "roster-complementation".

[Pleiades]

Nice mod, with lot of attention to details.

I tried as Eriador on M/VH, Large scale to not tax my PC too much. Don't worry, it was vanilla 3.2 plus Realism. No gremlins, goblins, germanicuses and so on

Until turn 37 was peaceful game for me. Then I lost way too easy Aragorn in battle versus independent rebels. True, battle was sharply uphill when fatique and morale on VH is very punishing. (But it should be so for AI too) But until that moment, battles against rebels were too easy for me, like 45 general horsemen against 700 ambushing rebels in my Heroic victory. I decided to restart the game lowering Battle difficulty to H because of Aragorn. I did notice 3HP for general horsemen versus 2HP for "peasants". That "pushes" me to try to reduce battle difficulty and see what will happen in next campaign. In "real life", everyday trained and well fed knights on horses would be formidable foe during charges against non-trained poor, starving and depressive peasants.

Before I start new game, some feedback after removing fog of war.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-Gondor is 3 provinces deep inside of Harad-supposed-to-be-provinces and one provicne deep inside Mordor-supposed-to-be-province, but Gondor is on defensive on all fronts (towns and fields) versus Harad and Mordor.

-Rohan visually seems to win slowly over Isengard. But when you look carefully all those units on large map, it seems that balance is still preserved.

-Dwarves seems strong with their stacks, but passive (not offensive).

-Both Elves are passive with low number of units in their rare stacks.

-Mordor is surprisingly helping (yes, helping!) Rhun against Dale with one big stack on Rhun territory near Dale and Rhun stacks and several stacks around Mordor-Dale borders, "just to remind Dale to not try anything with Rhun". While there is some balance between Dale and Rhun, with slightly stronger Rhun, Mordor will soon help Rhun greatly. And then East half of map is lost to the Shadow.

-OoG and OoMM are nice, aggressive just as they need to be. I would not change anything here.

-In fact, considering that the "job" of Eriador player is to take care for OoG and OoMM and that East half of map seems will be surrendered to the Shadow soon, that means that next in line are Gondor and Rohan even if Isengard somehow succumb to Rohan with or without help of Eriador.

So, for now everything is almost perfect if the goal is Evil domination. The only slightly possibly problematic thing is what if Gondor resist this Mordor and Gondor offensive (in my game).

[DaVinci]

Well, thanks for that balance feedback (here with your alternative settings compared to dev settings), always interesting.

Comments:
- Aragorn has with turn 37 long time 16 hp or more (20? can't remember right now, would have to look into edct), if you loose him still, then it must have really bad circumstances, i never lost him since i overworked details (his bg and himself), same with his Dunedain-friend (just forgot the name) and Gandalf.
- That battles with rebels are relative easy is balancing intention.
- Turn 37 says not so much, i'm even bit surprised about the results (relative much action). Tendencies which you describe can change with every other decade ( at least when according factions ie. have not substancially lost their main realm(s) ).
- Your challenge as Eriador is expand/secure, then or parallel, help allies who might need it and where it is possible for you, and finally trying to provide the Arnor requirements (as soon as possible), and as Arnor trying to "turn the tide", up to the final victory conditions (which is quite a big challenge again, if allies vanishing).

[Pleiades]

Well, thanks for that balance feedback (here with your alternative settings compared to dev settings), always interesting.

You are here little sarcastic, aren't you? Be happy that I am honest with my settings. Other players very very often do not even mention their settings. But, you just gave me the idea how to behave for my future feedback posts. Or even worse, you were NOT being sarcastic, in which case I feel obligatory to always report my anti-clockwise settings in my future feedback reports.

Comments:
- Aragorn has with turn 37 long time 16 hp or more (20? can't remember right now, would have to look into edct), if you loose him still, then it must have really bad circumstances, i never lost him since i overworked details (his bg and himself), same with his Dunedain-friend (just forgot the name) and Gandalf.

Or pure bad luck on statistic margin. Aragorn was involved 1vs1 against one heavily wounded unit of "peasant archers" class in melee vs melee without any spearmen in battle. Plus of those 50 horsemen he had by default in his unit, he died as 20th man, which means after his death 30 more men in his general unit left to continue fight. Usually general dies among last men in unit of general. Don't worry, he did not lose all of those 20 men before his death on that "peasant archers" unit, but in previous engagements (also with peasant archers and such). Aragorn unit could not charge though, cause it was in narrow town square on the hill. Plus it was "tired" or "very tired". As for the enemy peasant archer, I don't know if it was "fresh" or "tired" and such. It should be very exhausted though, because it was the end of losing and long battle for them.

- That battles with rebels are relative easy is balancing intention.
- Turn 37 says not so much, i'm even bit surprised about the results (relative much action). Tendencies which you describe can change with every other decade ( at least when according factions ie. have not substancially lost their main realm(s) ).

Possibly, but once again, at that turn 37 all evil factions were on the offensive (with OoG, OoMM and somewhat Rhun's decent number of full or half-full stacks in and out of their towns), except Harad on defensive. (Isengard too was in offensive, although visually and statistically (faction ranking) it seemed weaker than Rohan at that moment) But that is my preference and reason why I choose your mod (lore-realism and united good vs evil theme).

- Your challenge as Eriador is expand/secure, then or parallel, help allies who might need it and where it is possible for you, and finally trying to provide the Arnor requirements (as soon as possible), and as Arnor trying to "turn the tide", up to the final victory conditions (which is quite a big challenge again, if allies vanishing).

...And to keep Aragorn in the inn "Prancing Pony", at least until Arnor is reforged!

EDIT: I am just starting new Eriador campaign with 5.7. See G5 post

[DaVinci]

EDIT: I am just starting new Eriador campaign with 5.7. See G5 post

...thanks for the G5 v5.7 reply hint. Reinforcement-bug is fixed now accordingly, in my dev version. Will be default content of the next TATW Realism+ release.

[Aringtoit]

Playing 2.46 as Eriador and everything's going fine. I can't become Arnor though! I've got all the required territories (including Coldfells), the OoG are wiped out but the House of Kings isn't showing up in the building browser. Annuminas is @ 28,000 + population and upgraded to a large city.

To be more detailed, I've got Carn Dum, Gram, Litash and Aithilin in the north (plus a couple of others), all of the Shire, and Allimir, Bree, Fornost, Amon Sul, Hoarwell, Staddle, Barrow Downs, Argond, North and South Tharbad and Duneard. Aragorn's still alive of course. What am I missing??

[Eönwë]

Alliance with Gondor?

[Pleiades]

Or prerequisite for House of Kings. Look in technology tree what it is

[Aringtoit]

I'm allied with Gondor (and pumping money into them). Eriador starts off allied to Gondor in this mod.

As to the tech tree, where is it?? I've built pretty much everything I can in Annuminas.

What I have now would have been enough to become Arnor in vanilla and previous versions of this mod unless DaVinci changed the requirements.

Thanks for the replies though.

[Pleiades]

All cultural buildings are prerequisites for House of Kingdom. Cultural buildings one after another:

-Standing Stones
-Tomb
-Heroes Shrines
-House of Kingdom

Btw, technology tree you may find when you open city screen where you can build buildings, recruit units, repair etc. In down left corner there are 4 small circles. Technology tree is 2nd circle from the left to the right (with magnifier). 1st circle also has magnifier. 3rd circle has woman head (advisory). When you are on technology tree, you need to right click on desired buildings not yet built to see their prerequisites.