Ideas for TATW HS Patch

[Ngugi]

Right; when its done you can get in touch.

[Makrell]

More watchtowers from start is indeed a good idea. Jihad would also be good. An idea from me would be to give HE a settlement right east of rivendell, as a start buffer from ootm. This is kinda lore accurate as elves and dunedain did control these areas and keeping the orcs and trolls away

[The Norseman]

OP updated. If theres anything wrong then let me know!

[StealthFox]

Lets not wait for the 3.1 hotseat to be over. We should start on this now.

Dale

Dale:

- Cities such as Grasgard and Riverrun should be able to construct ports. Income for those cities are greatly needed. Rhun`s cities can earn up to 1000 - 1700 the first turns while Grasgard and Riverrun struggles to make more than 500-600.

- Araw should be able to build a market. The region borders to SEVEN other regions and can potentially trade with all of them. Such an important key region should thus be able to recruit a market.

- Rhun begins with 9 regions while Dale only starts with 4. Araw should atleast have a population boost so that more units may be recruited and the road to upgrading the fortress to the next level will not seem so difficult. It will take Araw more than 100 turns(More than that) to upgrade to the next level. It makes the fight against Rhun incredibly difficult and especially when Rhun captures Uldonavan which is a much bigger citadel with two recruitment-slots.

- All of Dale`s cities have poor harvest making population growth and recruiting more difficult.

- Should not Dale be able to construct mines when they are so close to mountains both in the north and the west?

- Dale will have Araw as one of its starting regions.

I think that's too much for Dale. First four are good, but the last two I think would make Dale over powered.

Rhun

Rhun:

- The Rhun general in Rhomen can in turn 1 capture the city of Kugaovd, thus receiving a city without having to fight a single battle. The general must start in another city so he is not able to reach the city in the first turn.

I'm indifferent on this. Will see what others think.

Isengard

Isengard:

- Isengard should have 1 more starting region. Either the two villages in the north west or the larger city in the west.

Harad

Harad:

- Nothing I can think of at the moment.

Harad could probably use an economy boost. Getting a good economy going with Harad is possible, but it takes awhile and it quite difficult.

Gondor

Gondor:

- Gondor should receive 1 other settlement in the east or the west. Gondor is fighting Mordor and Harad on his own and winning can be really hard if the opposing players are just ok.

This is going to be difficult to balance. Perhaps giving Gondor Cair Andros would be good.

Eriador

Eriador:

- The Breeland Militia should have their stats improved. Their attack is 6 and their defence 8. Their defence is alright, but their attack should be minimum 7 or 8 as not only does OOTMM have double their size in one unit, but their units can also beat Eriador easily.

- Eriador must wait 5 turns to recruit units for some reason. It should be changed so that they may recruit at the first turn such as all other factions can do.

Maybe bump both attack and defense up one.

Eriador

High Elves:

- The economy of the High Elves is difficult to maintain at a balanced level. If you have more than one stack you will find yourself going red in a couple of turns. This does not happen to other factions which can have atleast 1 and a half/2 stacks before having the economy dropping. HE will because of that have another city as one of its starting regions such as Hoarwell or another one in the west.

- Rivendell will begin with a larger garrison.

- HE will start with 1000 more so that its treasury does not go through the floor.

- It has been mentioned that HE troops could have a lower upkeep cost.

Give HE one more region in the west. The rest sounds good too.

Rohan

Rohan:

- Rohan could also start with 1 other settlement.

Maybe the settlement that borders Dol Guldor and Lorien. Is that Tirith Anduin?

Silvan Elves

Silvan Elves

- The autoresolve is pretty terrible, but if they can have Eryn Dolen or Amon Gastal as one of their starting regions, it should balance the game. The Silvan Elves and High Elves for that matter have the slowest recruitmentrate in the game.

General Fixes

General Fixes:
- Population in several cities increased
- Population requirement from Town to Large Town changed from 4000 to 2500
- Population requirement from Wooden Castle to Castle changed from 8000 to 2500/3000
- Population requirement from Large Town to Minor City changed from 12 000 to 4000/5000
- Population requirement from Castle to Fortress changed from 14 000 to 7000
- Dale has Araw as one of its starting regions. Does it really say in the lore that Dale did not have Araw?
- Silvan Elves has Amon Gastal as one of its starting regions. This is a small village north of Lothlorien. It wont make much difference, but it will balance it a bit.
- Rivendell begins with a larger garrison. We might have to give HE a 1000+ in economy to keep it from going red the first three turns.
- Decrease the cost of watchtowers from 200 to 150. Dont know if that is possible. Let me know if you do.
- Disband some rebel units in different rebel cities.

So what do you guys think? These are just some ideas I have for now.

- Population requirement from Large Town to Minor City changed from 12 000 to 6000

- Population requirement from Wooden Castle to Castle changed from 8000 to 4000

[Gallus]

I don't think it's possible to make Dale OP. Giving them mines is against the lore but giving them Araw is a good idea. If you don't give them Araw at least make Riverrun a town.

[StealthFox]

Didn't you beat some fairly large Rhun stacks as Dale in HS1? Overall, I think Dale's troops are a bit better than Rhun's starting troops in autoresolve. So, that's why I think we should be careful about giving them too many bonuses.

[Gallus]

Didn't you beat some fairly large Rhun stacks as Dale in HS1? Overall, I think Dale's troops are a bit better than Rhun's starting troops in autoresolve. So, that's why I think we should be careful about giving them too many bonuses.

First of all, it was stack, not stacks. I defeated 1 stack, killed the remaining troops of that stack, took 1 settlement and then found myself with no money and surrounded with 3 full stacks of Rhun while I had one stack and half. Dale troops are no better than Rhun ones, it's just that I had an epic general and all my starting elites and a bunch of mercenaries in that stack. Heart Watchmen are weaker than your average rebels... Dale needs around 1000 gold per turn more to stand a chance against Rhun. I played both factions in a hotseat so I know what I'm talking about. I'd say give Dale Araw and make Riverrun a town OR increase Dale king's purse by 800.

[The Norseman]

Yeah but in that hotseat, Rhun already had 2 full stacks ready to attack again because they are so much richer than Dale. The only reason why Dale won was because they had King Bard who is just an epic general. Rhun also starts with a lot more regions than Dale and three of them are richer than Dale`s richest city.

- Population requirement from Large Town to Minor City changed from 12 000 to 6000

- Population requirement from Wooden Castle to Castle changed from 8000 to 4000

sounds good to me, I also forgot that we are increasing the city populations!

[Gimli]

I agree with StealthFox, we should get working on this ASAP.

Dale

Dale:

- Cities such as Grasgard and Riverrun should be able to construct ports. Income for those cities are greatly needed. Rhun`s cities can earn up to 1000 - 1700 the first turns while Grasgard and Riverrun struggles to make more than 500-600.

- Araw should be able to build a market. The region borders to SEVEN other regions and can potentially trade with all of them. Such an important key region should thus be able to recruit a market.

- Rhun begins with 9 regions while Dale only starts with 4. Araw should atleast have a population boost so that more units may be recruited and the road to upgrading the fortress to the next level will not seem so difficult. It will take Araw more than 100 turns(More than that) to upgrade to the next level. It makes the fight against Rhun incredibly difficult and especially when Rhun captures Uldonavan which is a much bigger citadel with two recruitment-slots.

- All of Dale`s cities have poor harvest making population growth and recruiting more difficult.

- Should not Dale be able to construct mines when they are so close to mountains both in the north and the west?

- Dale will have Araw as one of its starting regions.

Dale will never come close to over-powered Rhun. Rhun starts off with a better economy, more settlements, more units/recruitment. Giving Dale something to help balance it out, because Dale almost never wins, and is over-whelemd with the forces of Rhun.

Also, i would think letting them build mines for Dale (The City) would be a good idea, since its so close to the Lonely Mountain. Remember, TATW is based on the lore, this is a Hotseat patch, doesnt have to be lore.

Rhun

Rhun:

- The Rhun general in Rhomen can in turn 1 capture the city of Kugaovd, thus receiving a city without having to fight a single battle. The general must start in another city so he is not able to reach the city in the first turn.

I say move him to somewhere else and replace it with another General.

Isengard

Isengard:

- Isengard should have 1 more starting region. Either the two villages in the north west or the larger city in the west.

Isengard is over-powered as it is against Rohan, giving them an extra settlement would probably make them un-stopable.

Mordor

Mordor:


- Nothing I can think of at the moment.

Harad

Harad:


- Nothing I can think of at the moment.

Gondor

Gondor:
- Gondor should receive 1 other settlement in the east or the west. Gondor is fighting Mordor and Harad on his own and winning can be really hard if the opposing players are just ok.

Gondor should start off with more units in the settlements West of MT because that is where Harad usually strikes, and most Gondor players have the bulk of their army fighting Mordor.

Im good with giving them an extra settlement. And perhaps a little bit of a population boost in Anarch (If we are doing an overall population boost for all settlements, then okay)

Eriador

Eriador:


- The Breeland Militia should have their stats improved. Their attack is 6 and their defence 8. Their defence is alright, but their attack should be minimum 7 or 8 as not only does OOTMM have double their size in one unit, but their units can also beat Eriador easily.

- Eriador must wait 5 turns to recruit units for some reason. It should be changed so that they may recruit at the first turn such as all other factions can do.

I dont think Eriador's Recruitment time can be changed because of Arnor. Also, i say leave the Breeland Militia and just do a massive population upgrade for Eriador in all settlements letting them build more stuff, recruit better units, and make it way easier to re-forge Arnor which would make the Hotseat pretty awesome.

Eriador

High Elves:


- The economy of the High Elves is difficult to maintain at a balanced level. If you have more than one stack you will find yourself going red in a couple of turns. This does not happen to other factions which can have atleast 1 and a half/2 stacks before having the economy dropping. HE will because of that have another city as one of its starting regions such as Hoarwell or another one in the west.

- Rivendell will begin with a larger garrison.

- HE will start with 1000 more so that its treasury does not go through the floor.

- It has been mentioned that HE troops could have a lower upkeep cost.

Rohan

Rohan:

- Rohan could also start with 1 other settlement.

Silvan Elves

Silvan Elves

- The autoresolve is pretty terrible, but if they can have Eryn Dolen or Amon Gastal as one of their starting regions, it should balance the game. The Silvan Elves and High Elves for that matter have the slowest recruitmentrate in the game.

I say both regions go to them because its more troops, and that way the Silvan Elf player doesnt start off loosing their main army taking Elyn Dolen.

General Fixes

General Fixes:


- Population in several cities increased
- Population requirement from Town to Large Town changed from 4000 to 2500
- Population requirement from Wooden Castle to Castle changed from 8000 to 2500/3000
- Population requirement from Large Town to Minor City changed from 12 000 to 4000/5000
- Population requirement from Castle to Fortress changed from 14 000 to 7000
- Dale has Araw as one of its starting regions. Does it really say in the lore that Dale did not have Araw?
- Silvan Elves has Amon Gastal as one of its starting regions. This is a small village north of Lothlorien. It wont make much difference, but it will balance it a bit.
- Rivendell begins with a larger garrison. We might have to give HE a 1000+ in economy to keep it from going red the first three turns.
- Decrease the cost of watchtowers from 200 to 150. Dont know if that is possible. Let me know if you do.
- Disband some rebel units in different rebel cities.

[aurther]

I currently thought it would be fun to do a hotseat campaign with a buddy but all we get are a ton of shire autonomy proposals, that wont go away no matter if we say yes or no, am i going to have to say no/no (for some reason two pop up each turn) every single turn. also he switched his capital but it shows up on my game also as if i changed my capital thats another side bar thing that pops up everytime.

we had a ton of fun doing a SS hotseat campaign but i dont know if we are going to run into a lot more bugs with TATW hotseat. or are there certain factions that work better then others?

[The Norseman]

Its because you start the hotseat in another way than we do. You must go in your preference file and enable hotseat and other stuff. Emperor of hell can tell you how to create a proper hotseat. If he has time!

[Gimli]

Have we found out if Nguigi's mod would be compatible with a Hotseat?

[The Norseman]

I have updated the OP with some new stuff after listening to the community`s opinions. I want to start with this as soon as possible so here is the current list:

List

Patch for TATW Hey guys, I think I might try to release a Hotseat patch for the next release of TATW. For TATW 3.3 or 3.4 and I would like to hear what you guys think of the following ideas. Please comment if you think other things should be done as well. Note that these points are just the first things I can think of at the moment. Dale Dale: - Cities such as Grasgard and Riverrun should be able to construct ports. Income for those cities are greatly needed. Rhun`s cities can earn up to 1000 - 1700 the first turns while Grasgard and Riverrun struggles to make more than 500-600. - Araw should be able to build a market. The region borders to SEVEN other regions and can potentially trade with all of them. Such an important key region should thus be able to recruit a market. We are not sure if this is possible for a castle, but we will have to check that out later. - All of Dale`s cities have poor harvest making population growth and recruiting more difficult. - Should not Dale be able to construct mines when they are so close to mountains both in the north and the west? - Dale will have Araw as one of its starting regions. Rhun has 9 cities and all of them are far more wealthy then Dale`s 4 cities. Where 1 of them is a village. Rhun Rhun: - The Rhun general in Rhomen can in turn 1 capture the city of Kugaovd, thus receiving a city without having to fight a single battle. The general must start in another city so he is not able to reach the city in the first turn. Isengard Isengard: - Isengard should have 1 more starting region. Either the two villages in the north west or the larger city in the west. Mordor Mordor: - Nothing I can think of at the moment. Harad Harad: - Increase the economy slightly. Gondor Gondor: - Gondor should receive 1 other settlement in the east or the west. Gondor is fighting Mordor and Harad on his own and winning can be really hard if the opposing players are just ok. A city like Cair Andros would be the ideal city. Eriador Eriador: - The Breeland Militia should have their stats improved. Their attack is 6 and their defence 8. Their defence is alright, but their attack should be minimum 7 or 8 as not only does OOTMM have double their size in one unit, but their units can also beat Eriador easily. - Eriador must wait 5 turns to recruit units for some reason. It should be changed so that they may recruit at the first turn such as all other factions can do. - Eriador could have a small economy boost. OOTMM and OOG can easily earn twice as much as Eriador and every other faction really. Eriador High Elves: - The economy of the High Elves is difficult to maintain at a balanced level. If you have more than one stack you will find yourself going red in a couple of turns. This does not happen to other factions which can have atleast 1 and a half/2 stacks before having the economy dropping. HE will because of that have another city as one of its starting regions such as Hoarwell or another one in the west. - Rivendell will begin with a larger garrison. - HE will start with 1000 more so that its treasury does not go through the floor. - It has been mentioned that HE troops could have a lower upkeep cost. - HE will start with another region in the west (not decided) Rohan Rohan: - Rohan could also start with 1 other settlement such as Tirith Anduin. Silvan Elves Silvan Elves - The autoresolve is pretty terrible, but if they can have Eryn Dolen as one of their starting regions, it should balance the game. The Silvan Elves and High Elves for that matter have the slowest recruitmentrate in the game. General Fixes General Fixes: - Population in several cities increased - Population requirement from Town to Large Town changed from 4000 to 2500 - Population requirement from Wooden Castle to Castle changed from 8000 to 4000 - Population requirement from Large Town to Minor City changed from 12 000 to 6000 - Population requirement from Castle to Fortress changed from 14 000 to 7000 - Decrease the cost of watchtowers from 200 to 150. Dont know if that is possible. Let me know if you do. - Disband some rebel units in different rebel cities.

[StealthFox]

I think I'm still against giving Dale access to mines. We can try it out in a test version maybe, but I think it will give them too much of an advantage considering the rest of the buffs they're getting. Everything else looks good though!

[The Norseman]

Yeah, we could test it out when we get this thing running and see if it gives Dale too much of an advantage. Hmmm only TATW 3.1 HS 3 # that remains now before we can start modding...

[*Ranger*]

Im not too sure about Dale having mines either, I cant see the dwarves letting others mine near them. Also how about increasing the Dwarves movement points? In 3.1 (not sure about the new patch) Rhun can run rings around the dwarves and makes it difficult to get close to them without exposing troops to getting wooped.

[The Norseman]

Im not too sure about Dale having mines either, I cant see the dwarves letting others mine near them.

Is there not a mountain bordering Esgaroth? nearby Emyn-Nu-Fuin?

[Gallus]

It's near but not really bordering it. Mines for Dale are really not that realistic. Making Riverrun a town and giving Dale Araw would be much better than giving them mines.

[The Norseman]

It's near but not really bordering it. Mines for Dale are really not that realistic. Making Riverrun a town and giving Dale Araw would be much better than giving them mines.

yeah I guess it is for the better. The Elven rebel city has mines though! but it is damn near impossible to take it with Dale and autoresolve. I used 1300 men against 400 and had clear defeat every time so I had to bring in Bard with his 10 stars and even then it was a close victory...

[StealthFox]

How many rebels were in that settlement? Probably 6 or more? That's one reason why I suggested reducing rebel units in rebel settlements. They could probably be halved across the board.