Ideas for TATW HS Patch

[Gimli]

- Changing the Watchtower cost is pointless, and plus the Watch Towers i doubt can be changed in price.

- Best way to make the High Elves economy more stable is to have more buildings that give more money to start off.

- Elves need to be able to recruit better units early on, as most Elven Cities can build the Barracks that allows you to build heavy troops, and they are stock with those basic units for quite a while.

- I think that all in all we need to increase the population everywhere, or make it so, Factions like Gondor can recruit those armored spearmen/swordsmen more then every 15 turns or so.

[The Norseman]

I dont think they should be able to recruit better units, because the next level of units are very superior and besides there is 1 more good faction so the good factions already have a sort of advantage although it may be almost unsignificant as the evil factions begin with many many more regions and richer regions than the good factions. But it could be an idea to let one of the elven cities start with a market or something like that to boost its economy slightly.

[Gimli]

EriadorEriador:


- The Breeland Militia should have their stats improved. Their attack is 6 and their defence 8. Their defence is alright, but their attack should be minimum 7 or 8 as not only does OOTMM have double their size in one unit, but their units can also beat Eriador easily.

I've been mainly focusing on Eriador at the moment, and been messing around with the unit stats and settlement populations.

I have found 2 Ideal areas that should and need to have a population boost which will make them be able to upgrade to a barracks more quickly and have access to better troops early on like other factions. And make it a more balanced war.

Also, right now regarding Eriador's Breeland Militia, so far with a decent general, they can win against an OOTMM/OoG Army at a 2:1 Ratio of troops. Cant remember the exact details (Attack/Defense)

[Emperor of Hell]

- Population in several cities increased
- Population requirement from Town to Large Town changed from 4000 to 2500
- Population requirement from Wooden Castle to Castle changed from 8000 to 2500/3000
- Population requirement from Large Town to Minor City changed from 12 000 to 4000/5000
- Population requirement from Castle to Fortress changed from 14 000 to 7000

The first one is quite some work but the last ones are just changing a couple of numbers.

Watchtower costs are possible to edit btw, if you want to know. They are culture (not culture as in religion) specific.

[The Norseman]

Increasing population isnt hard, it simply takes some time. The population requirement is not hard to change either, that only takes a minute or two.

Would it be fun to implement a good crusade? or would that be too troublesome? I mean I could do it if everyone wants to.

Giving gondor a settlement should not be needed. They should with a bit of luck be able to defeat Harad as well.

Having rebel settlement garrisons reduced would also help some of the weaker factions. I tried to besiege a rebel city with dale and used 1200 men vs 500 and got a crushing defeat.

[Emperor of Hell]

Would it be fun to implement a good crusade? or would that be too troublesome? I mean I could do it if everyone wants to.

Not possible. Crusades and Jihads require the factions to have the same religion. So you could only have one for either elves, dwarves, northmen or numenorians.

Giving gondor a settlement should not be needed

Perhaps giving them the settlement at their western border would help them a bit.

[knicolas2]

giving gondor that settlement in the west would give them round about 400 more if you have minas tirith still as capital. adding maybe henneth annun or ithilien would bring more.
even better would be to reduce the recruitment time.

[Willowran]

even better would be to reduce the recruitment time.

^^

It's one thing i always hated. do that. for EVERY faction.

[The Norseman]

Maybe we could let the Elves have a crusade, since they are already so weak?

giving gondor that settlement in the west would give them round about 400 more if you have minas tirith still as capital. adding maybe henneth annun or ithilien would bring more.
even better would be to reduce the recruitment time.

That would like SF said, make Gondor a powerhouse. If you play Gondor properly it shouldnt bee too hard to defeat Mordor and Harad.

I can see what I can do with the RTR so that we could recruit some more men and not have to wait so long before another unit is available, that is unless some of you want it to be the way it is.

[StealthFox]

I think it would be fun to have a good "crusade." If you didn't know Ngugi has already made exactly this using the vanilla jihad function in his Dunedain Counter Invasion submod. Maybe it would be compatible with hotseats, and if not maybe he can make it compatible. Hmm, it also includes a start with Arnor script. I wonder if this will work in hotseats. Would be interesting to see a hotseat campaign with Arnor from the start. If we do this we'd also have to be sure to fix the Invasion Pope script, as currently I don't think it works in hotseats.

[Ngugi]

Hello guys
Have spoken with StealthFox about the concept of a DCI*-version for hotseat.
Done some initial beta-testing of the vanilla DCi just to see how it works out. The concept will by the limitations be scaled down and remove most story-elements if created but that's no problem as I percive it; hotseat and single player has different main points.
Now for two important questions.


1) In DCI Gondor and Arnor can use the jihad-feature [call Tôl Acharn], and if a Northmen-faction [Dale, Eriador and Rohan] is allied to the faction that call the jihad then they can participate as well. It means, just like with Invasions improved speed, free upkeep, special mercs and traits.
Is it interest in the community for a DCI-hotseat-submod?


2) If the common fact that hotseat and scripts do not go hand in hand many times will mean that Northmen-factions [Dale, Eriador and Rohan] can not participate in the jihad, whats your honest interest ina DCI-hotseat-submod?


* http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=497959

[The Norseman]

1) In DCI Gondor and Arnor can use the jihad-feature [call Tôl Acharn], and if a Northmen-faction [Dale, Eriador and Rohan] is allied to the faction that call the jihad then they can participate as well.
Is it interest in the community for a DCI-hotseat-submod?

I think we are all interested in a Jihad, though there is so much other work to be done and we dont want too many changes from the original TATW 3.2. We simply want to balance the hotseat and your mod is one of the things which could improve it a lot. I am not familiar with other changes you have done in your mod and I dont know if the other players are willing to download an entire mod to play a hotseat. Is it not possible to simply implement your Jihad function into the hopefully 3.3(or 4.0 I dont know if they are planning to make any patches for a while) version? There are a lot of other changes we will have to do as well, other than just enabling a crusade for the good factions.

[Gimli]

I think we are all interested in a Jihad, though there is so much other work to be done and we dont want too many changes from the original TATW 3.2. We simply want to balance the hotseat and your mod is one of the things which could improve it a lot. I am not familiar with other changes you have done in your mod and I dont know if the other players are willing to download an entire mod to play a hotseat. Is it not possible to simply implement your Jihad function into the hopefully 3.3(or 4.0 I dont know if they are planning to make any patches for a while) version? There are a lot of other changes we will have to do as well, other than just enabling a crusade for the good factions.

I already have the mod in my spare TATW file, Its really cool. 3.3, 4.0 Wont be a for very long time Noseman, it would be now that we make that HS Patch. We can always add the HS part of Nguigi's Mod to the HS Patch, and give him credit for it.

[StealthFox]

I already have the mod in my spare TATW file, Its really cool. 3.3, 4.0 Wont be a for very long time Noseman, it would be now that we make that HS Patch. We can always add the HS part of Nguigi's Mod to the HS Patch, and give him credit for it.

Seconded! Ngugi's mod could just be added into whatever HS patch we make. I think a game with Arnor from the start and Tol Archon counter invastions would be really interesting and lots of fun!!!

[Ngugi]

Oh, please don't speak about 3.3 or 4.0, new versions is every TATW-modders nightmare

The DCI-additions for hotseat would be a religion swap, enabeling of a Loremaster + 2 anc's to make them work (and removal of some priest-traits), the hope that a cross-religion/culture-script work, 4 additional units [if you want to], sounds for events and units and then really nothing more. Ca 150MB I guess, and then a large part is the soundfiles - simplicity would be of the essence due to hotseats problematic nature.
Edit: if baked into your mod/patch I ofc have no idea of size hehe.

The Arnor from start work without problem btw

[The Norseman]

But that would mean everyone would have to install a new TATW and then add your mod doesent it? Because most of us are in 3.1 and 3.2 hotseats with no mods... If so then we should wait until the 3.1 hotseats are done so that we can simply overwrite that installment. The changes seem good to me.

[StealthFox]

But that would mean everyone would have to install a new TATW and then add your mod doesent it?

I think this would be the case with a HS patch/mod even without DCI.

Because most of us are in 3.1 and 3.2 hotseats with no mods... If so then we should wait until the 3.1 hotseats are done so that we can simply overwrite that installment. The changes seem good to me.

Yeah, it would be a good idea to wait until the 3.1 hotseat is over.

[Ngugi]

I think this would be the case with a HS patch/mod even without DCI.

Yup, there's no practical difference between a patch or a submod concerning that.

Yeah, it would be a good idea to wait until the 3.1 hotseat is over.

Just don't wait to start make it until you're done just, such work takes a long time to finish and beta-test, ask EoH or anyone experienced.

[Gimli]

But that would mean everyone would have to install a new TATW and then add your mod doesent it? Because most of us are in 3.1 and 3.2 hotseats with no mods... If so then we should wait until the 3.1 hotseats are done so that we can simply overwrite that installment. The changes seem good to me.

This Hotseat Patch would only effect the HS, for me, im just gonna put it with my regular 3.2 Once we get Hotseats going with it, because it will make no difference to the Vanilla Gameplay for SP, I asume.

I agree with giving the High Elves an extra settlement in the East with Rivendell, but the only other Elf Settlement is Ost-in-Gil, and then theres Hoarwell.

I also think, for a future rule, if we do Nguigi's Mod into our HS Patch, that it has to be 40-50 + Turns before calling a Jihad/Crusade(Holy War),Tol Archon on a Settlement. And perhaps, it can spawn, that settlement a couple Units just to make it more interesting a Battle.

[knicolas2]

or maybe just an idea.. reduce the upkeep costs of the elv units also . instead of increasing the economy