"Feel" of the battle physics in Rome 2?

[boxleitnerb]

Rome 1 was my first Total War game and I loved the feel of mass and force of impact when two units collided. The whole unit came to a stop, unable to break the enemy formation immediately. You could see the units shoving and pushing, you could feel the struggle, hear metal powerfully clanging on metal.

In Medieval 2 this feeling was still there, but to a much lesser degree in my opinion. In Empire and Shogun 2 it was gone altogether, sadly. Will Rome 2 be different?

[Ultra123]

Rome 2 was my first Total War game

im sure you mean rome 1.

but yes i agree after med2 etw ntw and s2tw was a total dissapointment for me armys fighitng in melee feels more 'gamey' less fluid and leave you no attachment to individual men on the field.

rome 1 was different and med2, i prefer the old approach of units not being 'locked' into 1v1 but fight more freely, ie stabbing at the nearest man and not 'locked' into some silly looking cinematic hogwash when he could clearly be sticking hus musket into the man on the left.

i hope rome 2's hype about 'armys clashing together' really is that and not 'armys clashing together and seeing another man, completely forget anything about evryone else and stab at him only' approach.

[boxleitnerb]

Yes of course Rome 1, that was a typo

[SughdianWarrior]

I agree, clashes in original Rome were more impactful and more exciting. Nothing like the latest titles. I really hope Rome 2 will be more like Rome 1, rather than Shogun 2 or titles before it.

[a tw player]

Yeah warscape has kind of done away with the "weight" of soldiers quite disappointingly...It's hard to describe or indeed explain...

Hopefully it can finally be addressed in R2TW, but I'm not sure if it's just an inherent problem with the engine itself

[Anna_Gein]

So I'm not alone to think this.

I would say since Empire the soldiers lack some "force" in their movement and their silhouette looks more fragile.
Something clearly visible during melee fighting.
They had better animation but sadly those new animation looks to trigger in a more robotic way.

I hope they will be able to correct it for Rome 2. We need A good depiction of the fightings with shield-wall.

[Rasic]

So I'm not alone to think this.

I would say since Empire the soldiers lack some "force" in their movement and their silhouette looks more fragile.
Something clearly visible during melee fighting.
They had better animation but sadly those new animation looks to trigger in a more robotic way.

I hope they will be able to correct it for Rome 2. We need A good depiction of the fightings with shield-wall.

I have to agree on this, I think it's how Warscape handles units colliding now.

It's less noticeable now days, but if any one has played empire extensively you probably remember when you charge with a cavalry unit then 5-10 of the guys will just stop while everyone else keeps running so that the animation could play of them being cut down.

Hopefully they work to make it more natural and less animation based.

[dom385]

Yes ! This is something I noticed as well ! It's is really difficult to explain but the units seem really fragile and light. I dont know if it's the animations activating that stops them colliding or what. Although one thing I'd say was better in recent games was cavalry meeting, I think cavalry actually have quite a nice feel in the newer games. In rome especially when 2 cavalry units met the horses pivoted on the spot really weirdly.

[Rasic]

It's the 1v1 animations that give it that that light feeling. When two units lock into each other the guys who don't find a partner to pair up with usually ended up running straight through or into the middle of the other formation unchallenged giving it a horribly unnatural feel.

What I've never understood is why they don't bring in more 2v1 and 1v2 animations. For instance a soldier shield bashing one opponent and quickly attacking another close by. Or two soldiers locking onto the same target so one could attack from the front while another stabs the guy from the back.

They have talked about adding proper mass to units for rome 2, although I'm not sure how much that will really affect it if the animations stay the same.

[Dwarven Berserker]

Completely agreed with the OP. However, Empire, Napoleon and Shogun 2 didn't have shields in them, so the need of maintaining a formation and the two sides "pushing" each other wasn't really there. In the Roman times, as mentioned before, Holding a shieldwall and the two sides pushing each other was very important. And I honestly don't believe CA would overlook this.

Also, CA mentioned that Rome 2 engine is a "heavily modified" warscape enine... So I'm pretty confident we'll get what we want

[Shocked]

I read something about formations being in Rome 2 and that heavy units will have mass that pushes back lighter armed units

[Dwarven Berserker]

I read something about formations being in Rome 2 and that heavy units will have mass that pushes back lighter armed units

Oh that sounds promising Do you recall where you read it?

[Shocked]

It was either the lead battle designer interview or a large gaming magazine interview, can't remember exactly.

[Anna_Gein]

Yes that was supposed to improved the fighting animation and especially the killing move add in medieval 2.
Problem in Medieval 2 was that most of the time the different soldier were misplaced so the animation was realize at distance.
You soldier was able to kill his opponent with a wonderful animation but his weapon wouldn't touch him.
In a way the change has attained his objective since now all different animation happened correctly.

I fear that adding more animation would at best not change the problem and could as well make it more visible.
I supposed it's more about how the different animation are trigger.

Maybe improving how a soldier behave when he is not engage in a personal duel could give a more natural feeling.

[General George S. Patton]

CA has said that soldiers and equipment will now have mass in rome 2

[katsusand]

This is very important

1v1 animations in Shogun 2 kind of made sense, but in Rome, everyone will beat the %#$@ out of anyone near him, and they get hit on the armor/shield and injured and they can continue.

In Shogun 2, he either blocks, evades, or gets finished off.

[Modestus]

I did not mind Warscape in ETW as it was mainly ranged warfare but in shogun II I found it to be woeful, something was missing not only did units lack any weight during combat they did not even feel a part of the landscape it was almost as if they could float away at any moment.

And usually they did the cowards.

[Shocked]

I did not mind Warscape in ETW as it was mainly ranged warfare but in shogun II I found it to be woeful, something was missing not only did units lack any weight during combat they did not even feel a part of the landscape it was almost as if they could float away at any moment.

And usually they did the cowards.

Ahaha, yeah Shogun 2 morale was horrible as well as the fighting engine.

[katsusand]

I don't think the fighting in Shogun 2 was "terrible"... I'd describe it as.. "Elegant"? Its very good, and I think it fits Samurai Warfare really well.

But the point here is that it won't fit ROME at all, which is chaotic and with heavy focus on lines and formations, afaik.

[Gorhaax]

I would love to have combat feel 'weighty' again. I like to watch my units clash but it's just not the same when your soldiers are 'dance' fighting; Even watching cavalry hunt down fleeing units is boring because the game decides they need to 'dance' and have one on one fights instead of just mowing them down. Darthmod alleiviated this a bit, but it still doesn't feel right.

To sum it up I basically want less 'dancing' and 1x1 combat and more meaty impactful clashes.