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  1. #1

    Default The Agent's thread (Scar's take)


    I'm making this thread to give a different take on the world of Agents. In my view, Every faction needs to have at least one type of every agent. Because if they do not, then The other factions can easily exploit thier weaknesses.

    Although I think it's important for every faction to have agents, I also think we should be as diffrent as we can make them without making them unbalanced.


    So here's what I'm thinking. What If Certain Races, that have predispositions to such things as oh, say spying. Have Naturally better spies. But since they aren't as trusted, they are not as effective as Diplomats.




    Example:


    Sheikah Spies all start with Trait (Eye for Deception, + 2 to Agents Skill)


    and all Sheikah Diplomats start with a Trait (Shrouded in Mystery, -2 to Agent's skill)



    All Goron spies have the trait "Burly" -2 to agent's skill. Obviously because a 7 foot tall rock man is not very discrete.


    Goron Merchants (Affinity for Mining) +2 to agent's skill.


    Kokiri: Have high movement points, low personal security


    Something like this, a system that uses traits and ancilliaries. that takes into account the strengths and weaknesses of each race, while not leaving them crippled because of whatever weaknesses they might have, and not giving them an unfair advantage because of their strengths.


    Also Keep in mind, that although it's important to stick to the Lore as much as possible. Where Balance is concerned, We just MAY have to bend our perception of the Peoples of Hyrule in pursuit of this. I'm sure no one can imagine a cute little fairy flying up and slitting someone's throat. But All is fair in love and war. ESPECIALLY THIS WAR.


    Also, take note that if special agents come up in the topic. That they are an ancilliary, and not a character model, as far as I know. This is subject to change.








    That being Said, Here is my list.









    Assasians:

    Kokiri Ocarina player (male or female, infiltrate high end offices by offering to play music for the governor of a settlement) Very stealthy, High movement points. Low Personal security

    Lanayru Courtesan (female or male Infiltrates settlements by "Charming" their target, and then killing them) Quite stealthy. Low
    Personal security

    Goron Ditch-Digger: Offers to do low-end labor jobs for a settlement, when his work is done he slips off to snap the neck of whatever his poor target is. Not Particularly stealthy, but good chance to kill generals. High Personal security.

    Wizzrobe Apothecary: Offers people in high places a taste of the wizzrobes power, saying they need only to drink this here wonderful potion. Which is actually poison



    Spies:

    Labrynna Mechanic- Male, offers to fix technical equipment such as catapaults, and because he has acsess to their equipment, can sabatoge them with stunning efficiency. excellent Saboteur, poor Line Of Sight (in comparison to other spies.)

    Sheikah Scribe: Offers services such as keeping records, uses her position to relay the strength of armies and settlements through written messages., high stealth, poor saboteur.

    Darknut Drill instructor: Infiltrates a settlement offering to aid with military training, and uses his position in the enemies military to relay their strength to his superiors. Low Stealth, Average Saboteur

    Kokiri Postman/Woman: Offers to use his/her boundless energy to run from office to office delivering messages, and then uses this position to relay the strength of the settlement to his/her superiors.

    High Movement points, bad saboteur


    Goron Blacksmith: Offers to upgrade the equipment of a standing army, using his position to relay the strength of them to his superiors.

    Low Stealth, good saboteur

    Orodonian Farmer, Horse-breeder: A Seemingly harmless immigrant from the plains of Orodona, offering to till the fields and tend to the crops in exchange for room and board. Uses position inside the settlment to relay its strength to his/her superiors.

    Above- average movement points, average stealth, poor saboteur

    Lanayru Economic Advisor: Well known for their boundless wealth and vast Rupee Mines, Lanayru economic advisors are considered experts on how to keep an economy running from day one.

    Offers to advise the governer on the economy of his/her settlement, using this position to relay its strength to his/her superiors.

    High Stealth, Terrible Saboteur

    Lizalfols Gekko. The Gekko, a descendant of the Lizalfols people, has the ability to scale hard surfaces and walls with ease, making them excellent spies.

    High Stealth, high Movement points, Low Line Of Sight.

    Merchants:


    Kokiri Seed Collector: A Merchant of the Kokiri People, specializing in collecting of grains and seeds.

    High movement points, average influence

    Goron Miner: A Merchant of the Goron People, who previously sold magic beans out of caves. With war breaking out, his trade is booming. Specializes in Plants

    Low movement points, high security
    Ikana Kingdom: Poe Merchant, a strange little man with a walking stick and a blazing red eye beaming out from under his hood. Not very influential (Because of Ikana Kingdom's poor economic Standing)

    Happy mask salesman ( Special/Hero Merchant; VERY Influential, not very wealthy, generous with rupees; Bonus on income)

    Hyrule:

    Morshu (Special/Hero Merchant; VERY influential and wealthy, stingy with rupees; penalty on income)

    Bazarr shop owner, generic merchant.

    Priests:

    Hyrule:

    Hylian Monk
    high influence, low security

    Gwonam (Hero/Special priest, VERY influential)

    Kokiri:

    Enlightened Kokiri. reached enlightenment by sitting under the deku tree.
    High movement points, average influence
    Last edited by Scar86; August 02, 2012 at 03:29 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scar86 View Post

    What If Certain Races, that have predispositions to such things as oh, say spying. Have Naturally better spies. But since they aren't as trusted, they are not as effective as Diplomats.

    Example:

    Sheikah Spies all start with Trait (Eye for Deception, + 2 to Agents Skill)

    and all Sheikah Diplomats start with a Trait (Shrouded in Mystery, -2 to Agent's skill)
    This is a great idea... which I may steal


    By the way, I thought you may want to know I've had confirmation on my guess concerning Neph's intents for the Agents:
    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim
    I intended for certain factions to not really bother with agents in general (The Gohma instantly come to mind). Those factions will of course have various substitutes for agents. In fact my intent was that not every faction has every type of agent (for instance only a handful of factions have assassins).
    I'm not sure what he means by "substitutes for agents" (awaiting clarification on that).

    Regardless, you should definitely continue this thread as it can lead to more good ideas like the above "default bonus/handicap"

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Serkol View Post

    This is a great idea... which I may steal

    >MFW



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Stop right There, Criminal Scum!


    J/k, just make sure you remember who you got it from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Serkol View Post

    Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim
    I intended for certain factions to not really bother with agents in general (The Gohma instantly come to mind). Those factions will of course have various substitutes for agents. In fact my intent was that not every faction has every type of agent (for instance only a handful of factions have assassins).
    I'm not sure what he means by "substitutes for agents" (awaiting clarification on that).

    Regardless, you should definitely continue this thread as it can lead to more good ideas like the above "default bonus/handicap"


    Thanks. I Certianly will. I think that MAYBE, if it doesn't cause any issues, we could extend these default traits/ancilliaries to generals where appropriate. Think about it, wouldn't it make sense if Kokiri Generals had high movement points, and low Personal Security, and the Darknuts had Vice-Versa?



    I Hope Nephalim can come up with a good substitute, because in all my experience with Me2, if you give the ai an inch, they'll take a mile.

    Remember the good Ol' day's?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Quote Originally Posted by Mattwensley View Post
    I'd like everyone to have diplomats, or at the ability to end war. As the Ordona, I need to be careful about who I go to war with, because unless they ask for peace with their diplomats, I'll be against them for a while


    >Implying the Orodona Province doesn't have Elder-god tier Goddess-Destroying armies of doom.

    In my experience with the Orodonna. I was eventually able to crush the other factions with my goatlords and farmers. the only thing that was a threat to me is that I kept having to fight a 2- theater war with the lizalfols and the Moblin people.
    Do you even farm??


    Lel, j/k.
    Last edited by Scar86; August 02, 2012 at 04:56 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scar86 View Post
    just make sure you remember who you got it from.
    If I didn't, that would be a shamefur dispray.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scar86 View Post
    MAYBE, if it doesn't cause any issues, we could extend these default traits/ancilliaries to generals where appropriate. Think about it, wouldn't it make sense if Kokiri Generals had high movement points, and low Personal Security, and the Darknuts had Vice-Versa?
    I'm not sure, I wouldn't want generals within a faction to become too similar to each other. I mean they are the most important agents and presumably the ones you will have in largest numbers, so it would be good for them to be very diverse.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)





    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Serkol View Post
    I'm not sure, I wouldn't want generals within a faction to become too similar to each other. I mean they are the most important agents and presumably the ones you will have in largest numbers, so it would be good for them to be very diverse.

    well my whole point was to try to make varying factions generals diffrent from one another, but I see what you mean in the sense that it would make generals of the same faction too similar. Ironic because right now whenever I play a campaign all of my generals are incompetent 1 star bufoons with marks of war


    Quite a Conundrum indeed.



    Maybe Only People in the Family tree of factions will obtain these bonuses? So that way when you get a general or two that becomes a family member, you actually feel like you've upgraded them?

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scar86 View Post







    well my whole point was to try to make varying factions generals diffrent from one another, but I see what you mean in the sense that it would make generals of the same faction too similar. Ironic because right now whenever I play a campaign all of my generals are incompetent 1 star bufoons with marks of war


    Quite a Conundrum indeed.



    Maybe Only People in the Family tree of factions will obtain these bonuses? So that way when you get a general or two that becomes a family member, you actually feel like you've upgraded them?
    IIUC, the "family tree" feature doesn't exist at all in this mod. That's why everything's based on adoption and promotion. I'm assuming we are simply not going to see any inherited traits, but I could be wrong.

  7. #7
    Mattwensley's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)

    I'd like everyone to have diplomats, or at the ability to end war. As the Ordona, I need to be careful about who I go to war with, because unless they ask for peace with their diplomats, I'll be against them for a while
    ~~Knowledge is power, and I do not like the feeling of weakness~~
    ~~If it's a million to one shot, I'll make sure I'm the one~~

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)

    I think the primary concern is how factions without assassins can defend themselves from meddling foreign agents.
    Have you made any plans for that?

  9. #9
    UndyingNephalim's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Serkol View Post
    I think the primary concern is how factions without assassins can defend themselves from meddling foreign agents.
    Have you made any plans for that?
    I'll use the Gohma as an example since they are a faction currently with no real agents:

    Merchant - Rupree Vacuole: This structure digests rupees into a paste like mulch that the Gohma can then consume. Generates income like merchants.

    Priest - Mind Node: This structure extends and strengthens the will of the Gohma across their territory, making them much less prone to outside influence and disconnects from the hive.

    Assassin - Gohma will be practically immune to assassination attempts, all their buildings will have a hidden security stat. Since the Gohma are all one single organism, it can instantly detect a spy since it has no control over such an individual.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)

    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim View Post
    Merchant - Rupree Vacuole: This structure digests rupees into a paste like mulch that the Gohma can then consume. Generates income like merchants.
    Wait, this thing eats rupees... and that gives you more income?
    Though I guess the Gohma wouldn't use them as currency in the first place, so it does make sense that they'd need some way to make them useful.

    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim View Post
    Priest - Mind Node: This structure extends and strengthens the will of the Gohma across their territory, making them much less prone to outside influence and disconnects from the hive.
    Yeah, I don't think it would be at all feasible to convert a Gohma to any kind of religion so that's good

    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim View Post
    Assassin - Gohma will be practically immune to assassination attempts, all their buildings will have a hidden security stat. Since the Gohma are all one single organism, it can instantly detect a spy since it has no control over such an individual.
    Makes sense... it's kind of similar to my statement concerning Darknuts that they are natural born guards.
    But why a hidden stat?

  11. #11
    UndyingNephalim's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke Serkol View Post
    But why a hidden stat?
    It would probably just look obnoxious and ridiculous with everything having +999 personal security.

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)

    Quote Originally Posted by UndyingNephalim View Post
    I'll use the Gohma as an example since they are a faction currently with no real agents:

    Merchant - Rupree Vacuole: This structure digests rupees into a paste like mulch that the Gohma can then consume. Generates income like merchants.

    Priest - Mind Node: This structure extends and strengthens the will of the Gohma across their territory, making them much less prone to outside influence and disconnects from the hive.

    Assassin - Gohma will be practically immune to assassination attempts, all their buildings will have a hidden security stat. Since the Gohma are all one single organism, it can instantly detect a spy since it has no control over such an individual.


    Allright. So long as you have solutions for this problem I'm fine. Sounds like an interesting new take on the game!



    So since The Darknut Legion is too Honorable to something such as spying, maybe their generals could have an enhanced default line of sight? Unless of course they hire a Zuna to do it.

  13. #13

    Default Re: The Agent's thread (Scar's take)

    Woah, that high? I see... (or actually, since it's hidden, I don't see)

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