Horned Spaniards are back!

[Breoghan]

I don't know if CA have based the (in)famous horned spanish in history...however, if they don't, i have to say that they are right when they say that "truth is stranger than fiction"...

[Lord Baal]

I don't know if CA have based the (in)famous horned spanish in history...however, if they don't, i have to say that they are right when they say that "truth is stranger than fiction"...

Where did you find those pictures? Can you provide us some more info please? It's quite interesting to look into. I must say however that if they based the units from the picture of the right they just did the hat. The guy looks like a weird mixture of a Greek with a Roman.

[Breoghan]

Where did you find those pictures? Can you provide us some more info please? It's quite interesting to look into. I must say however that if they based the units from the picture of the right they just did the hat. The guy looks like a weird mixture of a Greek with a Roman.

Those helmets were found in the necropolis of Numantia, and probably its origin was italic, but some authors argued that are of celtiberic origin...

[Markas]

Bull Warriors were one of few units in RTW that were complete fantasy. Wouldn't mind some more info on this, also.

[Lord Baal]

The one on the left have some text in spanish, it would say something along the lines of:
is characteristic
* a chainmail**
* tell us
* sparse and a
maybe from a
* precedence
the warriors
panoply

* and ** meanings

*un-complete word, the first one really escapes me, the second seems to be necesarias that means "needed". The third one is n, probably was the word son, that combined with "spare" would mean "are sparse". The fourth one is ha, but is you look carefully it's a cha, that would be from dicha, that in context would mean "said", so the phrase would be "said procedence". ** it only says cota, in Spanish cota alone means measure or size, but in Spanish chainmail is cota de malla, looking the context of the picture it can't mean anything else, certainly de malla was written in the next line.

Panoply means a collection of weapons a warrior had. The image is called cornudo.jpg, or horny.jpg. Of course horny not in the sexy way. Also if you look, the right side of the picture seems to be curved backwards, like if it was scanned, and some text reflexes are visible, probably from the next page.

I think is from an encyclopedia, printed one. Kind of old too give the stile of the drawing.

[Breoghan]

The one on the left have some text in spanish, it would say something along the lines of:
is characteristic
* a chainmail**
* tell us
* sparse and a
maybe from a
* precedence
the warriors
panoply

* and ** meanings

*un-complete word, the first one really escapes me, the second seems to be necesarias that means "needed". The third one is n, probably was the word son, that combined with "spare" would mean "are sparse". The fourth one is ha, but is you look carefully it's a cha, that would be from dicha, that in context would mean "said", so the phrase would be "said procedence". ** it only says cota, in Spanish cota alone means measure or size, but in Spanish chainmail is cota de malla, looking the context of the picture it can't mean anything else, certainly de malla was written in the next line.

Panoply means a collection of weapons a warrior had. I think is from an encyclopedia. The image is called cornudo.jpg, or horny.jpg. Of course horny not in the sexy way.

Also if you look, the right side of the picture seems to be curved backwards, like if it was scanned, and some text reflexes are visible, probably from the next page.

I cant say what the text say "exactly", cos i dont have scanned those images...(I don't want to be banned if someone suspects i'm violating intelectual propperties) but i can tell you that the text says something like this is an reenactment of a celtiberian chieftain, with an local sword of atrophied antennas and a soliferreum (throwing spear made of iron). His shield is a typical iberian caetra and he has captured an roman chainmail- that were rare amog celtiberians-He bears an south-italic style helmet probably captured to a roman auxiliary...

[Markas]

A Chieftains helmet, then? It's preservatioon would suggest that (I assume it's not a recreation).

[Greve Af Göteborg]

I think that the helmets are part of a ritual equipment, rather than battle equipment.

[daelin4]

I think that the helmets are part of a ritual equipment, rather than battle equipment.

I can picture it now:

100 years from today, they make a Total War game based on the US., and Marines will be depicted as fighting in their dress blues, and the debates will revolve around whether the enlistees also used Mameluke swords and whether officers had red trims.

Then some trolls will post images of dress blues and say those are what marines REALLY looked like, not with camouflaged because they were badass devildog semper fi.

[Breoghan]

I can picture it now:

100 years from today, they make a Total War game based on the US., and Marines will be depicted as fighting in their dress blues, and the debates will revolve around whether the enlistees also used Mameluke swords and whether officers had red trims.

Then some trolls will post images of dress blues and say those are what marines REALLY looked like, not with camouflaged because they were badass devildog semper fi.

I don't know what wrong i've do to you to call me "troll". my intention only was to share information in this forum, as i am a fan ot total war games. If you don't want to understand this i recomend you to read a little more about history.

With all my respects.

P.S. sorry for my bad english.

[daelin4]

I don't know what wrong i've do to you to call me "troll". my intention only was to share information in this forum, as i am a fan ot total war games. If you don't want to understand this i recomend you to read a little more about history.

I wasn't making a jab at specific people.

[Ahiga]

I can picture it now:

100 years from today, they make a Total War game based on the US., and Marines will be depicted as fighting in their dress blues, and the debates will revolve around whether the enlistees also used Mameluke swords and whether officers had red trims.

Then some trolls will post images of dress blues and say those are what marines REALLY looked like, not with camouflaged because they were badass devildog semper fi.

I think it's very risky for people in the present to simply dismiss anything they consider odd, unfeasible or lacking in their perception of realism as "parade ground material". It reminds me of how you can have people look into messages and morals in books that aren't there (Invoke the South Park episode making fun of The Catcher in the Rye). We can't let our modern biases dictate what we think would be used in the field and what would be used ceremonially just because it contradicts our personal views. I've seen people dismiss more colorfully painted helmets or armor because they have the preference of grunge and gritty 'realism'. Or the interpretation of ancient greek statues being pure and clean ivory white, instead of actually being painted as they were.

We have the Medinet Habu depictions of horned warriors fighting the Egyptians of the late Bronze Age and other Egyptian depictions, or those of other cultures. If we're going to dismiss it entirely out of hand because it doesn't look reasonable to us and we cluck on about how it'd catch blows rather than deflect them (as helmets are deemed to be exclusively designed for with no attention to style, aesthetic and so on), then it opens up the floodgates for penny-picking other 'odd' looking warriors in antiquity.

I mean look at how silly tribal peoples can dress or look with feathers and dodads and such. There's almost a kind of bigotry to assume that our fine, upstanding caucasian ancestors of antiquity couldn't have similar eccentric habits, styles, or aesthetic preferences to our modern preferences.

[athanaric]

I mean look at how silly tribal peoples can dress or look with feathers and dodads and such. There's almost a kind of bigotry to assume that our fine, upstanding caucasian ancestors of antiquity couldn't have similar eccentric habits, styles, or aesthetic preferences to our modern preferences.

Those horns are very tall, though. I mean, feathers are light, and silly masks are worn close to the face, but horns that extend more than 30 cm? Might prove to be quite a liability.

[Julio-Claudian]

Well they said something about such units from Rome 1 in one of the interviews. They were talking about the 'Bull Warriors' and it was said that "they probably weren't called that but they did exist and that's what they would have looked like", or something along those lines.

[Lord Baal]

You can say what the text does say if you have access to the bigger or whole images, even if you have access to the book. That would be hardly a violation of intellectual properties, as neither is quote authors and books here.

[Petroniu]

Well, if they found it in tombs, maybe you can have it to some elite iberian troop officer as a helmet but it looks a little bit off set to be common among soldiers.

[MathiasOfAthens]

I would imagine horns on helmets would cause the helmets to tip to the side. They would be heavy for the soldier to keep balance. During combat when the soldier becomes tired the helmet will tip even more. I dont think those helmets were used in combat but for parade or ceremony.

[akkakk]

I would imagine horns on helmets would cause the helmets to tip to the side. They would be heavy for the soldier to keep balance. During combat when the soldier becomes tired the helmet will tip even more. I dont think those helmets were used in combat but for parade or ceremony.

they are only thin strips of bronze, not solid, thick horns.

Bronze that thin would be rather light, and a soldier used to wearing that type of helmet would not have a problem keeping his head up.

[Red Hue]

they are only thin strips of bronze, not solid, thick horns.

Bronze that thin would be rather light, and a soldier used to wearing that type of helmet would not have a problem keeping his head up.

They would have trouble with it in battle though!

There is a reason that most of the plums and whatnot were detachable. Most of this stuff with horns, wings, and so on are parade gear or ceremonial.

It dose make for colorful animations and eye candy though.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Well, just take a look at any of the Japanese Kabuto. Yeah, they look stupid, and a less fantastical looking helmet probably would have been more effective, but back then, it wasn't all about "Effective."

A lot of the time, it was to look scary, or intmidating, or just plain badass.

To our minds now, wearing uniforms (Like Redcoats, for example) would seem stupid, and illogical, but at the time, it was normal. Sure, looking back on it, wearing guady colors and massive helmets looks stupid, but at the time...? Who knows?