The "Trial of the Century" in Brazil and the "Mensalão" Scandal

[Latin Knight]

Hi, i never posted on this part of the forum before, but now i felt compelled to do it, because of an important event we Brazilians will witness from the start of August - next thursday, 02/08/2012, starts the judicial trial of the infamous "Mensalão" political corruption scandal, which came to public in 2005.

36 criminal defendants, including high-rank Congressmen, will face various charges including fraud, embezzlement of public funds, corruption money laudering, and others. This was all part of a vast scheme of political corruption that perplexed the Brazilian populace, which involved top-tier political party leaders - a complex system of fraudulent operations that misused public funds coming from State-owned companies and private banking companies, culminating in the governing party, the PT (Labour Party) distributing a monthly stipend to the deputies from the "allied" parties in the Congress to vote with the governmental policies, thus the name of the scandal, which means, in Portuguese, literally "Big Monthly Allowance/Payment".

The episode effectively ruined the reputation of the PT and its associated parties, as they rose to power with moralist speeches of "cleaner politics" and "reverting the mistakes of past governments", which were characterized by political scandals, and menaced the reelection campaign of then PT President Lula (Luís Inácio "Lula" da Silva).

They will be trialed before the Supreme Court of Brazil - the Supreme Federal Court (STF), and it will be so far one of the most extensive trials in the history of the country, not only because of the sheer amount of documentation and procedural material (about 15.000 pages of procedural documents), but also because of the significance of the trial in our political history - Brazil indeed has a serious history of political scandals and corruption.

I've been sent this excellent article by The Economist, which synthesizes and explains some important points, and inspired me to start this thread for further discussion. Other interesting links are below, for those interested to learn a bit more about the case.

http://www.economist.com/node/21559640

http://www.as-coa.org/articles/4277/...ruption_Trial/

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCont...ion-trial.aspx

As the trial comes to a start, a lot of complicated matters arise, mainly the supposed failure of our Criminal Judicial system of offering society a response for these episodes and scandals - our criminal legislation is understood by most as being unadequate, unsufficient or too feeble to face corruption. "The Law is only good to jail the poor, but the politicians always get away with it", the general sentiment echoes in the various protest marches against corruption and by the newspaper headlines.

I study Law in Getúlio Vargas Foundation (FGV Direito Rio), and some of the research institutes of the college, specially the one refering to Criminal Law, from this week onwards will provide a juridical consultory to the biggest newspapers of the country, mainly "O Globo" and "Folha de São Paulo". I saw myself entering last week in this program as a research assistant to my Criminal Law teacher, who will be one of the main persons interviewed by the newspapers to explain the advances and questions of the trial, and will have chance to see the events unfolding in first hand. The function of this project inside my college is to capture all the data and information concerning the case, elaborating dossiers and elaborating juridical thesis. Our purpose is to effectively "observe and translate" what happens in the Trial, explain it to the newspapers, so they can vehiculate the informations to the general populace.

[Menelik_I]

Unless Lula is indicted in this trial, this is a big farce because He had knowledge of the scheme and He intimidated judges to delay the trial.

Now that Lula has retired and Dilma is already president, this trial is as meaningful as a Globo soap opera about minstrels.

[Vítor Gaspar]

There are no innocent people. Power corrupts and Lula, Dilma or whoever is on power, from PT or PSDB, well likely mess up at some point.

I believe Lula was aware of what was going on. I do believe, however, that the Brazilian government - or any other government - is too large for a single man to exert such an influence completely stopping corruption. He is probably one of the world's most influential politics but he is no way stronger to "stop" established interests single-handedly.

And moreover, I believe Lula didn't profit from the situation. At least monetarily speaking. It was way too much of a risk for him to get into that.

Hopefully the trial will reach a positive conclusion for Brazilian democracy and the Brazilian people.

[Latin Knight]

Unless Lula is indicted in this trial, this is a big farce because He had knowledge of the scheme and He intimidated judges to delay the trial.

Now that Lula has retired and Dilma is already president, this trial is as meaningful as a Globo soap opera about minstrels.

I disagree in some points. Just as many people, i do believe the ex-President was entirely aware of the scheme, but i digress that he actually intimidade judges. Trust me, the Supreme Court in these last decades has become aware of its own power and has assumed a new role in Brazilian politics, that we haven't seen since the early years of the Military Coup in 1964.

Now, i do believe the trial will be meaningful. It certainly will not be a stain to the current president, and, indeed, Lula somehow has managed to dissociate himself with the corrupt politicians but, if the trial actually results in the punishment of the involved, it will surely be remarked in Lula's probable reelection campaign in 2014.

There are no innocent people. Power corrupts and Lula, Dilma or whoever is on power, from PT or PSDB, well likely mess up at some point.

I believe Lula was aware of what was going on. I do believe, however, that the Brazilian government - or any other government - is too large for a single man to exert such an influence completely stopping corruption. He is probably one of the world's most influential politics but he is no way stronger to "stop" established interests single-handedly.

And moreover, I believe Lula didn't profit from the situation. At least monetarily speaking. It was way too much of a risk for him to get into that.

Hopefully the trial will reach a positive conclusion for Brazilian democracy and the Brazilian people.

You raised fine points. Political corruption, unfortunately, is an evil rooted in government affairs since the days of the most ancient civilizations with even the most rudimentary form of administrative apparatus. Obviously, this doesn't not makes the fight against it and the demand for a certain "political ethic" less righteous.

Anyways, this especific "Mensalão" scandal was shocking due to its massive scope. I agree that Lula didn't "profit" from it. A commenter from today's newspaper recalled that, at the eclosion of the scandal, the president's image was entirely shattered, the PT party as well, after its years of speeches of "political correctness". Impeachment at the time did not seem implausible at all, and allegedly his government almost fell apart. Somehow he managed to rise from the ashes and used the simple expedient of populism and demagogy to wholly distance himself from the episode.

Indeed, we all are hoping for a positive conclusion.

[Menelik_I]

I disagree in some points. Just as many people, i do believe the ex-President was entirely aware of the scheme, but i digress that he actually intimidade judges. Trust me, the Supreme Court in these last decades has become aware of its own power and has assumed a new role in Brazilian politics, that we haven't seen since the early years of the Military Coup in 1964.

Then how does the judges leave the case pending up until the legal time limit to judge the case almost up ? Even Lula himself said that He wasn't worried because He will probably be dead before they finish judging the case.

They are doing it know because the election is over or because Lula is already dying of cancer (maybe).

Now, i do believe the trial will be meaningful. It certainly will not be a stain to the current president, and, indeed, Lula somehow has managed to dissociate himself with the corrupt politicians but, if the trial actually results in the punishment of the involved, it will surely be remarked in Lula's probable reelection campaign in 2014.

I wasn't aware that they were doing a Putin-Medvedev two step with Dilma ... gotta love cultural exchange.

[Megas Ycarus]

Our politicians are one of the most, if not the well paid in the world. But at the same time, they are perharps the ever in the world. We have clowns, ex-soccer players, and even feminine funk dancers in our national congress. This happens because the legislative power exists and it's powerful. The only solution would be to permanently contain the government or even extinguish it (yes, studies showed it is possible). Except for the Libertários (LIBER), all political parties want to steal the money of the people here, in form of taxes, embezzlement, and other means. It's at the same time a shameful and humiliating reality. And people do nothing to stop the politicians from doing it.


It's estimated that with no taxes, 17500,00 US$ would be spared for every family. And without corruption brazilians would be 27% richer.

There are so much people here that wants to play soccer with the head of every member of the Workers' Party. Including me.

They are the biggest cancer of our country, along with other politicians and political parties. Many of it's members used to be terrorists during the military government, including our president itself.

[Vítor Gaspar]

Our politicians are one of the most, if not the well paid in the world. But at the same time, they are perharps the ever in the world. We have clowns, ex-soccer players, and even feminine funk dancers in our national congress.

Education is the keyword there. You can't expect much until people change. There's a reason why that sort of people you're talking about were primarily voted by Northeasterners, favelados and people with basic to no instruction at all. The really poor Brazilians. The people who vote in the PT because they're closer to them.

There's a reason why I'm yet to see a Brazilian online defending the PT. You all belong to a social group that is better off than most Brazilians.

That's the only way you can explain people like Tiririca getting to the Congresso Nacional. They're voted by those with less education and means. And, mainly, by the poorest states.

As I've said countless times, the sooner the Southern Brazilians, Paulistas and the middle-class from Rio realise that, to change many of the problems in Brazil, you have to reduce your regional inequality (I mean, some of your Northeast states have the GDP per capita of Moldova and the HDI of Lybia, while Santa Catarina has almost the GDP per capita of Portugal and a HDI comparable to that of Lisbon or Madrid). That is the way to go.

Until then, you won't get rid off the many third wolrdish problems that still trouble Brazil.

I think you know this much better than me - I'm Portuguese not Brazilian. But visiting Bahia and then going to Curitiba is like going from North Africa to Europe. Except it's in the same country.

That can't be good.

It's estimated that with no taxes, 17500,00 US$ would be spared for every family. And without corruption brazilians would be 27% richer.

Considering the huge capital inequality you have in Brazil, having no taxes would only mean one thing: that inequality would grow even more. Brazil is making a huge and incredible progress in its welfare system. In fact, I'd risk saying it's now ahead of several European countries. With no taxes, that would end.

And so would the "average" educational system you have. And bear in mind that educating the poor Brazilians is the only way to change things on the long run. I mean, the average Brazilian would be richer without taxes, but what would the poor do with that money? In the end he wouldn't profit much from it, spending it all away, not investing in education (at least the majority). I can't stress this enough: Brazil really needs to invest in education. Both basic and superior.

Hundreds of thousand of Portuguese skilled technicians are going to Brazil because you have a shortage of college graduated professionals. I may even be one of those in the future. So not only you'd solve some of the problems in your democracy through education but you'd also contribute for a more developed economy in the long run.

They are the biggest cancer of our country, along with other politicians and political parties. Many of it's members used to be terrorists during the military government, including our president itself.

As if the Military weren't the greatest terrorists during the Regime Militar. Do you expect to end with dictatorships with flowers or something? (isso só aconteceu em 1974 em Portugal porque *inserir piada de português aqui*)

The right-wing "terrorist" tag on Dilma isn't much better than the PT's populism.

[Guidrion]

Corruption is the fundamental disease of any institution with power, therefore the state is and will always be more or less corrupted. And if the state cease to exist, the new system will just have new flaws. At least, the state can be criticized and changed.
You may attack the people who are corrupted and condemn them but to attack the very concept of the state because of individual crimes is pointless.

It's estimated that with no taxes, 17500,00 US$ would be spared for every family. And without corruption brazilians would be 27% richer.

Yes and infrastructure, health, education, security, justice and various public services will magically exists with no extra cost for anyone. If it all gets privatized, you'll just pay whatever it will costs you. You won't end up richer.

[gamegeek2]

Yes and infrastructure, health, education, security, justice and various public services will magically exists with no extra cost for anyone. If it all gets privatized, you'll just pay whatever it will costs you. You won't end up richer.

Well not all of these services are public goods. A public good is defined as a good that is both non-rivalrous (if one person receives it, it does not mean that nobody else receives it) and non-excludable (it is not possible to prevent people who paid from having access to it).

Obviously the police service therefore is a public good, ridding the street of criminals is something that is enjoyed by everyone. Same case with eradication of epidemics, which everyone enjoys the benefits of. National defense, prisons, etc. are all the same way. Now obviously it makes sense to have the private sector provide the actual service in some situations (i.e. pay contractors to build the local roads, pay the company with the best vaccine) but not others (military, police) but it makes sense for the government to foot the bill in either case.

However, surgery is obviously both rivalrous (one person getting the surgery means someone else does not) and excludable (people who don't pay for the surgery can't get it), meaning it is a "private good." Public transportation is excludable but not rivalrous, meaning it is a "club good."

Infrastructure is an interesting one, as it is always non-rivalrous; whether it is excludable or not is the question, and determines whether the good is a "public good' or a "club good." Small, local roads are obviously hard to restrict access to (and doing so would be rather oppressive, no?) so it makes sense for them to be paid for by local governments. Highways, water and electricity services, education, and public transportation can be excluded for the most part so it is possible for a private company to provide these services as well as the government. The debate is over who should provide them; public provision will result in easy and cheap access for everyone, but generates perverse incentives (public sector unions, more corruption, etc.) and the cheapness will result in over-use of the service, leading to congestion and/or faster depreciation. Private provision will result in fewer people receiving the service due to higher prices but the service will not suffer from as many problems. There's your infrastructure debate.

Health is another debate to be framed in these terms. As mentioned, it's easy to agree (for most people) that the national government should work to control disease because that's a private good. However, for health goods and services that are excludable and rivalrous (in other words, private goods) like surgery or drugs, it is debatable whether public provision of them is wise or not. The same road can be driven over ten billion times and still look the same, but there are not enough doctors to provide ten billion surgeries, and there are not antidepressants for the same reason - supply. In the case of public payment for health care, these health services will be over-used and either drive up the price of the good/service (assuming the good is produced by a private company, like birth control) or produce shortages, assuming the price is fixed by a government provider. In the case of private health care, some people will go without certain services, though it is notable that charitable hospitals were very prevalent in the United States before the introduction of Medicare/Medicaid and would provide services at little or no cost to people.

[Megas Ycarus]

Education is the keyword there. You can't expect much until people change.

Quite that. Although, not by the government hand. It would result in alot of hypocrite leftists (as it is happening right now).

There's a reason why that sort of people you're talking about were primarily voted by Northeasterners, favelados and people with basic to no instruction at all. The really poor Brazilians. The people who vote in the PT because they're closer to them.

First of all, let's analyze our political situation. Why the PT is so strong ? Well, because the voting is compulsory. This means more left-leaning votes. Quantity does not mean quality. And the country is composed mainly by poor, uneducated, misinformed people, so don't expect much of the voters.

There's a reason why I'm yet to see a Brazilian online defending the PT. You all belong to a social group that is better off than most Brazilians.

The PT wants to steal the money from rich people in form of abusing taxes, to redistribute it in form of subsides. Instead of helping, it creates ALOT of social problems.

That's the only way you can explain people like Tiririca getting to the Congresso Nacional. They're voted by those with less education and means. And, mainly, by the poorest states.

As I've said countless times, the sooner the Southern Brazilians, Paulistas and the middle-class from Rio realise that, to change many of the problems in Brazil, you have to reduce your regional inequality (I mean, some of your Northeast states have the GDP per capita of Moldova and the HDI of Lybia, while Santa Catarina has almost the GDP per capita of Portugal and a HDI comparable to that of Lisbon or Madrid). That is the way to go.

Until then, you won't get rid off the many third wolrdish problems that still trouble Brazil.

Until we reduce our taxes to 3% for security-only purposes, privatize nearly everything, we will be a retrogade, neo-socialist country.

I think you know this much better than me - I'm Portuguese not Brazilian. But visiting Bahia and then going to Curitiba is like going from North Africa to Europe. Except it's in the same country.

Haha. Thank the PT for creating commerce restrictions, abusing protectionism and alot of other idiotic things.

That can't be good.

Of course it can't ! And government can't solve it either.

Considering the huge capital inequality you have in Brazil, having no taxes would only mean one thing: that inequality would grow even more.

Ah my friend, I'm sorry but you said one of the biggest BS's ever . Explain me that fact that inequality nearly doesn't exist in Hong Kong and Singapore, countries where the free trade and low taxes coexist, and that they have VERY high HDIs.

Brazil is making a huge and incredible progress in its welfare system. In fact, I'd risk saying it's now ahead of several European countries.

What cave you have been living under at, FOR SAKE ?
YOU CALL THIS INCREDIBLE PROGRESS ?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I dare you.

With no taxes, that would end. And so would the "average" "sucky" educational system you have. And bear in mind that educating the poor Brazilians is the only way to change things on the long run.

Sigh. Again, no. With a 3% tax and no restrictions on commerce alot of private hospitals would pop up. If a good or a service becomes too numerous or too common, it becomes devaluated, it means cheaper. Inflation, for example: Too much money is printed, therefore it loses it's value, so you have a bread costing 10.000.000.000 cruzeiros (an old currency here).

And so would the "average" educational system you have.

Yeah. We would have instead alot of good quality cheap private schools. Be minded that a service/good when monopolized, becomes very poor of quality, as it doesn't have anyone to compete against (lower prices and improve quality).

And bear in mind that educating the poor Brazilians is the only way to change things on the long run.

Yeah. When we remove the compulsory voting and end the leftist bias on the public schools. It's really retrogade and indoctrinating.

I mean, the average Brazilian would be richer without taxes, but what would the poor do with that money? In the end he wouldn't profit much from it, spending it all away, not investing in education (at least the majority).

. Be minded that we have a tax rate of nearly 50%. For instance, if a PS3 costs 1000 reais, 500 reais are taxes. If a school tuiton costs 7000 reais, 3500 are taxes.

I can't stress this enough: Brazil really needs to invest in education. Both basic and superior lower taxes and end all the commerce restrictions.

Fixed.

Hundreds of thousand of Portuguese skilled technicians are going to Brazil because you have a shortage of college graduated professionals.

I'm sorry friend, but that is another big BS. We have very skilled people here. The problem is, they are not well paid here because of the nanny-state government. You knew that a brazilian invented the Kinect ? And you know that it is a brazilian that created the prototype of the mind-controlled exoskeleton ?

I may even be one of those in the future.

I'd be glad if you do. More qualified people here, making our lives better.

So not only you'd solve some of the problems in your democracy through education but you'd also contribute for a more developed economy in the long run.

Limiting the government and delegating more power to the cities is the solution of the nepotist, lobbyist, corrupt "democracy" here.

As if the Military weren't the greatest terrorists during the Regime Militar.

. It would be better to stick with the military than the communists. They killed only 500 people during 21 years of regime, that actually did something wrong (helping leftists, making guerrillas, terrorrism in name of leftism, robbing in the name of leftism, kidnapping in the name of ...). cough cough 61 million dead at USSR, 20 million dead at China.

Do you expect to end with dictatorships with flowers or something? (isso só aconteceu em 1974 em Portugal porque *inserir piada de português aqui*)

Portuguêses são uns florzinhas .

The right-wing "terrorist" tag on Dilma isn't much better than the PT's populism.

They are equaly . But Dilma has started last week a extensive privatization program, which is good.

Corruption is the fundamental disease of any institution with power, therefore the state is and will always be more or less corrupted.

And if the state cease to exist, the new system will just have new flaws. At least, the state can be criticized and changed.

I support a limited government. I will only support the stateless solution if other country experiments it, and it's shown to work in a long run.

You may attack the people who are corrupted and condemn them but to attack the very concept of the state because of individual crimes is pointless.

The lack of transparency and the power of the government and the politicians are the reason of the corruption. Same bove.

Yes and infrastructure, health, education, security, justice and various public services will magically exists with no extra cost for anyone. If it all gets privatized, you'll just pay whatever it will costs you.

Yes. It will cost you much less than paying taxes for services that you won't end up using. Again, more services and goods, better quality and lower price.

You won't will end up richer.

Fixed .

[Menelik_I]

It seems that PT is thinking about launching a judiciary counter attack against the ''Procurador do Ministerio Publico'', which is kind of like the dude who brings the case.

[Megas Ycarus]

It seems that PT is thinking about launching a judiciary counter attack against the ''Procurador do Ministerio Publico'', which is kind of like the dude who brings the case.

HAHA . Typical of these corrupt retarded terrorrists bad politicians. Lula and his folk will try to bribe and attack everyone related to the Mensalão.