PLEASE TELL ME THIS IS NOT TRUE

[ironbrigade]

I herd on a thread that this was in shogun, is this in single player also or only mp? This would indeed cause me to not get Rome 2 if in single player.


"One thing that does bother me tho is that totalwar is no longer about wars on the battlefield but more about capturing battlefield magic buildings that give army bonuses that's a bit more than i can handle :\ Its almost insulting to have the map dictate where i have to attack or lose that magic bonus."

[IGdood]

Chill.

MP only.

[Aanker]

THIS IS NOT TRUE IN FALL OF THE SAMURAI AND AS FAR AS I AM AWARE WAS ONLY OPTIONAL FOR SHOGUN 2 CAPS LOCK HYSTERIA!!!!11111one

Honestly, from the looks of it, it seems more as if Rome II will be about (in sieges) taking over specific areas to eventually emerge victorious with all the control points in your hands, and not as focused on individual buildings that grant certain bonuses.

[Asgaroth]

pew....

I am glad for that.

[Drtad]

I think you should watch maybe part of a let's play for Shogun 2 to see how it actually plays rather than relying on hearsay. Just saying.

[swoosh so]

Yep only us multiplayers have to suffer SO FAR was i that made the original post about the buildings.

This was introduced to make new players move from the start zone hills to the detriment of experienced players that made alot of movement in game anyway, now we are forced to play in specific map zones or lose the building bonuses which is not a good idea if u want to win.

I play totalwar so that it simulates an actual battle not so i can run around picking up powerups ala sonic the hedgehog. You had best hope it stays out of single player and does not poison that also.

[daniu]

was i that made the original post about the buildings.

How did I guess that?

[swoosh so]

How did I guess that?

X

[krisslanza]

They added the buildings to prevent camping. Because otherwise an experienced player would find a hill, set up on it, and then wait. And wait. And wait.
Because no one wants to be the one to rush into a killzone first. The key buildings forces players to not just camp, and have to actually go and engage the enemy.

[swoosh so]

Wrong experienced players in the community had respect for each other and there would be tons of movement in games and no camping, only the odd idiot would camp and a camping player is often to static to be of any use anyway.

This reduces tactics in the game and especially movement and makes tactics who can rush to hold a bonus giving building its totalwar on rails..

Areas of the map that have no bonus building get completely ignored its carrot on a stick type battles and setups for the non creative player.

[krisslanza]

Wrong experienced players in the community had respect for each other and there would be tons of movement in games and no camping, only the odd idiot would camp and a camping player is often to static to be of any use anyway.

This reduces tactics in the game and especially movement and makes tactics who can rush to hold a bonus giving building its totalwar on rails..

Areas of the map that have no bonus building get completely ignored its carrot on a stick type battles and setups for the non creative player.

Still that relies upon the idea of "gentleman's agreement", which is to say you're in noway certain you'll fight someone who does that. It's far easier for a game developer to ensure there's a way to discourage camping, instead of relying on the well-being and generosity of players.

[Wodeson]

I'd have preferred to see army camps rather than dojos, but the mechanism worked well enough to punish camping.

[swoosh so]

I would rather have that than be told how i must approach every single battle and play every map the same way time after time because the bonuses are just too important to surrender.. The community also runs a lot of tournaments where the camping would not be allowed and i never faced a camper that did win a battle as only uncreative players would consider camping when they get to a certain level in totalwar. This was a problem for new players that were not creative enough to move another new player off a hill, they did not have to ruin battles at the other end of the spectrum for it.

It is not possible to camp in a 3v3 effectively in anyway and in 99% of games 2v2 either, good map design can prevent the possiblity to camp completely by good placement of terrain giving solid approaches to possible camping positions, its when lazy map design or command and conquer style maps appear with impassable terrain that problems can start but even then only in 1v1 and between new players.

In the end when you are an experienced player all the dojos did was give you an advantage over new players (as the better players control the map points anyway) that you did not need and made games vs your equals or peers boring and one dimensional fighting over a dojo usually in the middle of the map head on...

[krisslanza]

I would rather have that than be told how i must approach every single battle and play every map the same way time after time because the bonuses are just too important to surrender.. The community also runs a lot of tournaments where the camping would not be allowed and i never faced a camper that did win a battle as only uncreative players would consider camping when they get to a certain level in totalwar. This was a problem for new players that were not creative enough to move another new player off a hill, they did not have to ruin battles at the other end of the spectrum for it.

You could just, you know, set up a battle and turn OFF the key buildings if it annoys you so much. It's not like you're forced to play with key buildings at all.

[Futski]

I think the Arsenal one was pretty neat. Capture this building, and you can restock on ammunition. Keep that. I don't care about the others, but the arsenal gotta stay.

[swoosh so]

I played 2v2 ladder with my partner aggonyamp where we were forced to play the buildings. In the end i got bored to death as it was the same old battles time and time again where head on builds just won the game time after time.

[krisslanza]

I played 2v2 ladder with my partner aggonyamp where we were forced to play the buildings. In the end i got bored to death as it was the same old battles time and time again where head on builds just won the game time after time.

Because ladder is match-made, if you want a game tailored to your tastes, you have to use the Battle List and hope people will join your game.

Or you could play classic, but again same restrictions apply as the avatar conquest is meant to be played with the key structures.

[swoosh so]

Because ladder is match-made, if you want a game tailored to your tastes, you have to use the Battle List and hope people will join your game.

Or you could play classic, but again same restrictions apply as the avatar conquest is meant to be played with the key structures.

No thanks i have to play matchmade to get clan tokens to keep my armies up to scratch for tournaments and tournament finals, You need to have at least a strong veteran list to compete in tournament finals and semi finals quarter finals etc and with ever changing balances and nerfs to abilities you had to have a constant flow of clan tokens to remain competitive at these levels.

I can't say the Shrine did QUITE that much, but it's certainly enough to swing a shaky battle in your favor. But in my personal experience, if you don't have a good strategy an extra 3 morale is only going to make your army stay in battle for a few extra minutes before they rout.

If Amp and i got 1 or 2 shrines it was an autowin in our 2v2 ladder matches im afraid there's just no way we would lose a game in that situation as im sure is the same of many experienced teams. How could one lose a game with morale and combat bonuses over their opponent? you would have to play a terrible game to lose +3 even morale across a whole army is huge especially with cheap ashigaru units with hold firm etc.

[krisslanza]

No thanks i have to play matchmade to get clan tokens to keep my armies up to scratch for tournaments and tournament finals, You need to have at least a strong veteran list to compete in tournament finals and semi finals quarter finals etc and with ever changing balances and nerfs to abilities you had to have a constant flow of clan tokens to remain competitive at these levels.

Last I checked, battle list battles still yield tokens. The only thing in MP that does not, is classic mode, if I recall correctly.

If Amp and i got 1 or 2 shrines it was an autowin in our 2v2 ladder matches im afraid there's just no way we would lose a game in that situation as im sure is the same of many experienced teams. How could one lose a game with morale and combat bonuses over their opponent?

That's not neccessarily showing a flaw in the system inherently. If anything, it just proves that with the boost from a building or two, you and your friend as a player, can overcome another. I've lost dozens of battles even while owning a shrine, or any other dojo.

[swoosh so]

Last I checked, battle list battles still yield tokens. The only thing in MP that does not, is classic mode, if I recall correctly.

you dont recall correctly your units still get experience but no token.

That's not neccessarily showing a flaw in the system inherently. If anything, it just proves that with the boost from a building or two, you and your friend as a player, can overcome another. I've lost dozens of battles even while owning a shrine, or any other dojo.

Sorry but thats just bad play from you then im afraid to say, we would often talk in disbelief if players were daft enough not to contest a combat dojo as the games just became non events much to our regret.

I dont want to sound arrogant as im not but we win usually around 93-96% of games regardless of dojos involved or not but the dojos themselves just make the game one dimensional forcing you into a very tight area of the map and wasting alot of map space and possibilities. Im sure when you can maintain ratios of that number you will realise that when playing at a high level in totalwar such bonuses are far too much for a player and they must be captured or disputed no matter what vs a player of similar skill level. Every clan or player i knew with a good amount of skill always moved alot in totalwar battles before the dojos even existed this is just natural for an experienced player as the game often rewards those with initiative not those who camp, that is a problem at the lower end of the skill level where a player does not have the creativity to remove a player of a similar skill level from a hill or wood.


It is just dissapointing that the solution was to dumb the game down to a game on rails where 2 armies simply meet at a dojo too important to bypass neglecting good movement of armies and good use of terrain and multiple ways to play maps.