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Thread: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

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  1. #1

    Default Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Apparently, some brave soul decided to post this:

    "Evolution - wikipedia
    Quote:
    Evolution is any change across successive generations in the inherited characteristics of biological populations. Evolutionary processes give rise to diversity at every level of biological organisation, including species, individual organisms and molecules such as DNA and proteins.

    Life on Earth originated and then evolved from a universal common ancestor approximately 3.7 billion years ago. Repeated speciation and the divergence of life can be inferred from shared sets of biochemical and morphological traits, or by shared DNA sequences. These homologous traits and sequences are more similar among species that share a more recent common ancestor, and can be used to reconstruct evolutionary histories, using both existing species and the fossil record. Existing patterns of biodiversity have been shaped both by speciation and by extinction.

    Charles Darwin was the first to formulate a scientific argument for the theory of evolution by means of natural selection. Evolution by natural selection is a process that is inferred from three facts about populations: 1) more offspring are produced than can possibly survive, 2) traits vary among individuals, leading to differential rates of survival and reproduction, and 3) trait differences are heritable. Thus, when members of a population die they are replaced by the progeny of parents that were better adapted to survive and reproduce in the environment in which natural selection took place.

    This process creates and preserves traits that are seemingly fitted for the functional roles they perform. Natural selection is the only known cause of adaptation, but not the only known cause of evolution. Other, nonadaptive causes of evolution include mutation and genetic drift.

    In the early 20th century, genetics was integrated with Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection through the discipline of population genetics. The importance of natural selection as a cause of evolution was accepted into other branches of biology. Moreover, previously held notions about evolution, such as orthogenesis and "progress" became obsolete.
    Scientists continue to study various aspects of evolution by forming and testing hypotheses, constructing scientific theories, using observational data, and performing experiments in both the field and the laboratory.
    Biologists agree that descent with modification is one of the most reliably established facts in science. Discoveries in evolutionary biology have made a significant impact not just within the traditional branches of biology, but also in other academic disciplines (e.g., anthropology and psychology) and on society at large."

    So, this is one interpretation of evolution.

    An interesting fact about proponents of evolution is the constant stress placed on the human side of the equation and NOT the cosmological side.
    This post is about the cosmological impact upon a human being and its' ramifications.

    What do I mean? The following for your consideration:

    When I as a human, look at something or hear something or taste, smell, touch something cognition of external objects occurs. Within that cognition, there is a statement of fact: Meaningful experience

    It is my assertion that for a human to have a meaningful-to-itself experience, circumstances must be established, be they mental or physical in nature.

    The only way a truly meaningful experience can be reflected to or within a human being is if a Transcendent source created the universe in which these experiences can be experienced:

    -Color, for example, is manifested to the human eye in a certain bandwidth visually.
    -Sound is manifested in a certain vibration acoustically.
    -Texture, in the various kingdoms, is manifested in a tactile way.

    There is no statistical chance or even worse, luck, that could have generated such a dynamic interaction between "subject" and "object" or meaningfulness towards a human being.

    hellas1
    Last edited by hellas1; July 31, 2012 at 05:43 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Congrats, you've figured out the universe.

    I am sorry, but there is no prize.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Quote Originally Posted by Sphere View Post
    Congrats, you've figured out the universe.

    I am sorry, but there is no prize.
    Think he can tell us how long this took to happen?
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    Think he can tell us how long this took to happen?
    You think Gaidin will stop trolling and actually address what's been written?

    hellas1

    Quote Originally Posted by Manco View Post
    Who ever said experiences have meanings unto themselves? The word experience even implies it hasn't any, as an experience must be experienced before being one.

    So basically faulty premise and a bunch of non-sequiturs.
    Don't worry, one day you'll get there.
    By "meaning" I denote conscious experience.

    Thank you and your wrong for assuming. Ask and don't assume. What I wrote is very clear.
    hellas1
    Last edited by God-Emperor of Mankind; August 01, 2012 at 06:57 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Quote Originally Posted by hellas1 View Post
    You think Gaidin will stop trolling and actually address what's been written?

    hellas1
    When you give us well defined terms and evidence, yes.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  6. #6
    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    You really should read more wikipedia articles.

    For example the one about the development of the eye and how colour actually work.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    You really should read more wikipedia articles.

    For example the one about the development of the eye and how colour actually work.
    The point, Adar, is the complement of Eye & color and not "Eye" by itself and "Color" by itself.

    Again, the universe has been construed in such a way as to convey both an objective & subjective meaning or meaningfulness.

    hellas1

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    I'm not making a claim, I admit I don't know what caused evolution.
    God of the gaps is still god of the gaps no matter how you dress it up.
    It sure sounded, felt and seemed like that to me...."Emotion of the gaps"

    Please don't B.S. or patronize Himster. Kindly speak in a straightforward manner then.

    Cheerio old boy!
    hellas1
    Last edited by God-Emperor of Mankind; August 01, 2012 at 06:56 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    What "caused" evolution is a nonsensical question. Consider this simple scenario. We have a given number of elements. They can all combine together into pairs (for simplicity) including with themselves. Any one compound of the elements which is more stable (read: energetically favourable) will be more likely to exist than its less energetically favourable counterparts and so will exist in larger quantities.

    Evolution is just an extension of that, on a far more grandiose scale. It is a property of statistics, nothing more. Think of life as being a chemical process for which it is its own "catalyst" (ish) and suddenly it all makes a lot more sense.

    Searching for deeper meaning in a statistical process is foolish.

  9. #9
    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Quote Originally Posted by hellas1 View Post
    The point, Adar, is the complement of Eye & color and not "Eye" by itself and "Color" by itself.

    Again, the universe has been construed in such a way as to convey both an objective & subjective meaning or meaningfulness.

    hellas1
    The problem is that "color" really isn't a meaningful in your context. It's just photons of different wavelengths that strike sensitive molecules at the back of our eyes. Color is something we interpret in our brain based on these impacts. When looking at the evolution of the human eye you see that you don't need any philosophical mumbo jumbo to see that each step is beneficial to the organism.
    Last edited by Adar; August 01, 2012 at 07:53 AM.

  10. #10
    Manco's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    meaningful-to-itself experience
    Who ever said experiences have meanings unto themselves? The word experience even implies it hasn't any, as an experience must be experienced before being one.

    So basically faulty premise and a bunch of non-sequiturs.
    Don't worry, one day you'll get there.
    Some day I'll actually write all the reviews I keep promising...

  11. #11
    Manco's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Quote Originally Posted by hellas1 View Post
    By "meaning" I denote conscious experience.

    Thank you and your wrong for assuming. Ask and don't assume.
    hellas1
    That doesn't make sense. You're now saying an experience is a conscious experience unto itself.
    That's nonsense.
    What I wrote is very clear.
    No, it isn't. The very fact that no one understands you as you intend to be understood should make that clear.

    You have zero evidence that experiences need some sort independent arbiter to have "meaning". Whatever that even means.
    Some day I'll actually write all the reviews I keep promising...

  12. #12
    Blau&Gruen's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Meaning occurs in language. Meaning in the narrow sense is a language thing. Meaning in a wider sense can also occur in statements related to more abstract systems of signification. The meaning of a syllogism or a sales check and the meaning of a grammatical correct sentence or the lexicon meaning of a word or even an entire poem are different in relation to what they can signify.
    ....
    This is a very rudimentary description of where meaning should be situated, of course.

    And, if you do not like that language thing, you can also say(!), significator, significans, signified and refer to, e.g. a chimpazee playing a computer game. The meaning would then probably be something like fun, or Richard Quest from CNN saying: "Quest means business!" Etc. What does this signify to the mind when you are too sleepy to find the right words?
    Last edited by Blau&Gruen; August 01, 2012 at 05:14 AM.
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  13. #13
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    How incredibly disjointed. Your beef, however, may be with "all of science" rather than "proponents of evolution", though.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Quote Originally Posted by John I Tzimisces View Post
    How incredibly disjointed. Your beef, however, may be with "all of science" rather than "proponents of evolution", though.
    No, not disjointed.

    Read what I said to Manco above.

    Again by meaningful I mean the 5 senses (6 if one includes mind) consciously experience external phenomena which register.

    This is not possible by statistical chance or luck but only by a Transcendent source.

    Quote:
    ""It really would have made more sense if you just wrote "why do we perceive red as red." "


    The OP is not about "why" but about "why and there is no way that chance or luck had anything to do with it."

    Toodles
    hellas1
    Last edited by hellas1; July 31, 2012 at 06:30 PM.

  15. #15
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    There is no statistical chance or even worse, luck, that could have generated such a dynamic interaction between "subject" and "object" or meaningfulness towards a human being.
    Any evidence to this claim? No? Ok then, see you next time.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  16. #16

    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    Any evidence to this claim? No? Ok then, see you next time.
    Do you have any counter-evidence? No?

    The blade cuts both ways my friend and besides no amount of proof would ever change your mind, as evidenced in past posts of yours.

    Do the research yourself...I'm not you playpet scholar.

    hellas1

  17. #17
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Quote Originally Posted by hellas1 View Post
    Do you have any counter-evidence? No?

    The blade cuts both ways my friend and besides no amount of proof would ever change your mind, as evidenced in past posts of yours.

    Do the research yourself...I'm not you playpet scholar.

    hellas1
    I'm not making a claim, I admit I don't know what caused evolution.
    God of the gaps is still god of the gaps no matter how you dress it up.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  18. #18
    Himster's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Quote Originally Posted by hellas1 View Post
    It sure sounded, felt and seemed like that to me...."Emotion of the gaps"
    Praise the Lawd, I done been saved.
    I thought you were making a god of the gaps argument, but you weren't, you were pointing out that we can extrapolate with 100% certainty how we evolved into such complex organisms: a transcendent force must have done it: Fact. Only an idiot who hates god could disagree with that.

    Please don't B.S. or patronize Himster. Kindly speak in a straightforward manner then.
    My earlier posts were not BS, you're clearly rehashing your god of the gaps argument, this time you're targeting the gaps in evolution rather than cosmology as the spaces for your god to hide.
    Last edited by Himster; July 31, 2012 at 06:47 PM.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are so certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubts.
    -Betrand Russell

  19. #19

    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    Praise the Lawd, I done been saved.
    I thought you were making a god of the gaps argument, but you weren't, you were pointing out that we can extrapolate with 100% certainty how we evolved into such complex organisms: a transcendent force must have done it: Fact. Only an idiot who hates god could disagree with that.
    Cans we now be free to believe anything and everything because god dunnit?

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  20. #20
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
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    Default Re: Evolution and human meaninfulness...The fact

    It really would have made more sense if you just wrote "why do we perceive red as red."

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