Isn`t anyone concerned that there seems to be very little info about AI advances?

[Humble Warrior]

It seems to me that there`s very little info from CA about what the AI (both CAI and BAI) will improve upon. I see lots of smart pictures and conjecture, but little to nothing about the Artificial Intelligence or the programmed routines.

Are CA improving on what we have in STW2? It is not enough to stop since there`s much more to be done to the intelligence both in campaign and battles. I have no wish to just stare at soldiers `pwning` everything in my wake and nothing challenging me at all.

And that means an actual AI, not just bonuses added on to give a Terminator like unstoppability. Perhaps a completely new AI engine?

Start now, CA, you have a year and a half to make the best every AI in TW!

[Destraex]

They have already mentioned that the AI is being built on top of the existing one. Which means you can probably write it off.
No real improvements I would say.

[Dagon]

When it comes to BAI and espacially CAI in TW games i stopped hoping for big improvements. It is at least in the rome scenario somewhat realistic that everybody gets pissed and attacks you, as long as you play rome.

[Turbosatan]

What Destraex said. It's hard for people like me & the OP to accept, but these just aren't those type of games any more.

Look at the forums; eleventy hundred people on a thread moaning loudly about how all the faces of the soldiers should be different, three people talking about the battle AI. That's what CA's taken notice of. That's the consumer base: every time someone admits they skipped the battles so they could go back to playing TIME PERIOD: Total Accountancy, it just justifies where CA's put the effort over the last nine years. These decisions happened a long time ago & seems churlish to moan about now.

Sucks to be us. Or it would, except I'm not going to buy it.

[Humble Warrior]

Then even more of a reason for me to post this thread and others to do so. If CA must be shouted at to get an improved AI then it`s up to US to do it!

It saddens me, however, that, apparently, so few seem to care as it is AI which gives replayability and longevity to these games and we don`t all play Multiplayer. CA has to remember that just because the MP crowd shouts loudest on a forum they are not necessarilly the majority. They have to use a little more brains than just what they see here.

CA also needs to have some personal integrity and say, `We don`t just want a good looking game for multplayers alone, we want a game that`s also superb with its AI in Campaign.`

We shouldn`t have to call for an improved AI, CA should just naturally want that; like an artist wanting his painting to be good on all parts of the picture, not just the sexy lady bit!

I don`t want to see an Empire AI at worse and STW2 AI best because CA decided they could get away with leaving it on release!

I`m probably wasting my time aren`t I? Why the heck do I even bother. Caring about something well done is a thankless task these days...

ps. Hmm. Seen Craig`s response. Well, I sure hope we will get something substantial on the AI front as I won`t buy if there`s nothing done.

And I will check BEFORE considering buying.

[Jack Lusted]

Then even more of a reason for me to post this thread and others to do so. If CA must be shouted at to get an improved AI then it`s up to US to do it!

It saddens me, however, that, apparently, so few seem to care as it is AI which gives replayability and longevity to these games and we don`t all play Multiplayer. CA has to remember that just because the MP crowd shouts loudest on a forum they are not necessarilly the majority. They have to use a little more brains than just what they see here.

CA also needs to have some personal integrity and say, `We don`t just want a good looking game for multplayers alone, we want a game that`s also superb with its AI in Campaign.`

We shouldn`t have to call for an improved AI, CA should just naturally want that; like an artist wanting his painting to be good on all parts of the picture, not just the sexy lady bit!

I don`t want to see an Empire AI at worse and STW2 AI best because CA decided they could get away with leaving it on release!

I`m probably wasting my time aren`t I? Why the heck do I even bother. Caring about something well done is a thankless task these days...

See the two CA posts above yours.

[T.C.]

I`m probably wasting my time aren`t I?

EDIT: Seems you got the message.

[SughdianWarrior]

Don't know about other people, but I think, compared to Empire (haven't played Napoleon) there were noticeable improvements in AI both on campaign map and battle map in FOTS and Shogun 2. I certainly found less stuff I could exploit.
Of course there are still many things that need improving and we need to point them all out, instead of making general posts. We should start from the obvious. I for example, still get annoyed when AI sends its whole army in one or two ships, without taking into consideration my naval power that is protecting my shores. Things like that.

[Jack Lusted]

We have talked about AI, we are working hard to make it better so it provides a more interesting opponent in both battles and campaign. We also have more AI programmers than ever before.

We have not gone into specifics because there is a long time until release. We are not throwing away our previous AI code because to rewrite the whole lot would likely result in a downgrade as we worked back up to the point we are now. By building on what we already have we can make much better improvements.

[CraigTW]

To echo what Jack said - we're at the cutting edge here. Developmentally, writing about functionality in detail before you've fully realised it is something that doesn't make much sense.

When we're ready to talk about what those improvements will look like in the final game, we will.

[Ifistfirst]

This

We have talked about AI, we are working hard to make it better so it provides a more interesting opponent in both battles and campaign. We also have more AI programmers than ever before.

We have not gone into specifics because there is a long time until release. We are not throwing away our previous AI code because to rewrite the whole lot would likely result in a downgrade as we worked back up to the point we are now. By building on what we already have we can make much better improvements.

And this

To echo what Jack said - we're at the cutting edge here. Developmentally, writing about functionality in detail before you've fully realised it is something that doesn't make much sense.

When we're ready to talk about what those improvements will look like in the final game, we will.

I just registered to say I'm not concerned. I love Total War games and if you had been enjoying them for the past 10 years you can notice that the quality scale has only gone up. If you can't see it, you are biased by nostalgia or bland pessimism.


Creative Assembly got it all for Rome 2: the experience, the money (40% extra budget over previous tittles), perfect era, more staff for every single area that involves the game (A.I. , historical research, engine optimiz. , gameplay, unit balance, story driven campaign for the first time in a Total War...)

I'm honestly thankful that Creative Assembly still pursue the dream of a perfect Total War, they have been the only videogame developer making videogames exclusively for the PC with a turn based / massive real time battles gameplay for the past 10 years or since forever in the videogame industry.


Concerned? Nah, leave them concerns for the weak, I plot my way to power, murdelin every insolent peasant in my way.

[Huberto]

We have talked about AI, we are working hard to make it better so it provides a more interesting opponent in both battles and campaign. We also have more AI programmers than ever before.

We have not gone into specifics because there is a long time until release. We are not throwing away our previous AI code because to rewrite the whole lot would likely result in a downgrade as we worked back up to the point we are now. By building on what we already have we can make much better improvements.

I believe you. I noticed AI improvements from NTW to S2 and assume that the AI is going to get better since you have added programmers. Is that Phd fellow still around?

One thing you all should be faulted for however, is not spending a little bit of time going back to your previous Warscape games and updating them to reflect improved AI. I know you've recently done an update for S2 but not NTW or ETW. Both of those gunpowder titles as I'm sure you know continue to be played and modded extensively.

They could really use an update.

[Greve Af Göteborg]

I believe you. I noticed AI improvements from NTW to S2 and assume that the AI is going to get better since you have added programmers. Is that Phd fellow still around?

One thing you all should be faulted for however, is not spending a little bit of time going back to your previous Warscape games and updating them to reflect improved AI. I know you've recently done an update for S2 but not NTW or ETW. Both of those gunpowder titles as I'm sure you know continue to be played and modded extensively.

They could really use an update.

Yes, a retrofit update of the AI would be very nice. I find the napoleonic time period very interesting, but I am somewhat off-put by the outdated AI.

Would love to see an update, because the games are not bad really, it's just that the AI is holding them back.

[Drtad]

Based on recent improvements, I don't think we need to worry toooo much about R2's AI.

I believe you. I noticed AI improvements from NTW to S2 and assume that the AI is going to get better since you have added programmers. Is that Phd fellow still around?

One thing you all should be faulted for however, is not spending a little bit of time going back to your previous Warscape games and updating them to reflect improved AI. I know you've recently done an update for S2 but not NTW or ETW. Both of those gunpowder titles as I'm sure you know continue to be played and modded extensively.

They could really use an update.

I agree, an AI patch for NTW and an AI (plus a few other things) patch for ETW would be a very nice gesture.

[G-Spike]

theres very little info on everything. So do i have to read 4 pages first to end this discussion?

[Dagon]

If more money & more gamedesigners = better game i'm all up for getting pleasantly surprised. Hope it works out.

[Humble Warrior]

Ok, A lot of posting happened during my second post. Thanks.

I, and I`m sure many AI hopefuls will be watching and waiting.

[Dagon]

Im mostly concerned about the CAI and have to say, that previous games only ahd a reasonable CAI if the setting allowed it. Napoleon wars with mainly 2 factions and civil war in japan works if the CAI only knows fighting without considering other factors, but in games like rome, medieval and empire it's not about all or nothing. It should be about becoming bigger or staying alive at almost any cost. The AI shouldnt be suicidal and should make proper peactreaties and alliances. And if the player would be the only chance for the AI to survive it should consider accepting becoming a protectorate and stay peacefull as long as it is not able to compete or the relationship and mutual fighint benefits it.

Backstabbing should occur once in a while, but it shouldnt be a onstant threat. Even rome expanded often only because they defended themselves, not because they started the war.

How aggressive a faction is should be determined by the traits of the leader not by the faction itselfs. Rulers are the reason for war, not nationality.

[SteamPunk]

Judging by these forums,some people are more concernd about what helmets the troops are wearing,rather than the actual gameplay mechanics. Sad really isnt it.

[Humble Warrior]

Judging by these forums,some people are more concernd about what helmets the troops are wearing,rather than the actual gameplay mechanics. Sad really isnt it.

It does concern me. AI is arguably the most important part of games like these. Though few seem to understand that. In fact, i would say work should be done on AI first, then all the rest, including graphics, second. AI should be the foundation a game is built upon, not secondary.

But that`s why those of us who do care about AI needs to post up and post sometimes, just to keep CA aware or they will put it on the back burner, believe me.