Should techs that are (slightly) beyond what was ever achieved in antiquity be available?

[Maklodes]

I was thinking about tech trees and how far they should extend in TW: Rome 2.

History is a baseline from which TW is built, but it is not the limit. Your Roman Empire could be bigger than the real one, full conquering the Parthians, or it could be destroyed by the Achaean league in 150 B.C.

So, should technological advancements be limited to what was achieved in classical antiquity, or should it be possible to discover things never discovered then, but only rarely? (In most games you'll probably never get to the "beyond antiquity" techs.)

To clarify, I'm not talking about guns or railroads or anything. I'm talking about things that the Romans were maybe on the verge of being able to create, and which might already be present in China, and which were certainly invented at some point in the future, perhaps in the middle ages or renaissance.

Example: with either enough connections to China, or with enough indigenous inventiveness combined with settlement in wet northern areas like Britannia, a faction might develop mouldboard plows. This would enhance agriculture such climates. Discovering a "futuristic" technology like this should be rare, and not something that could be achieved in every campaign, but it might be possible.

What do you think? A good idea, or would it open a whole new can of worms regarding historical issues that would make it not worth it? I can see that this has a certain risk to it, that it might make things a bit less like a historical wargame and more like a Civilization-type 4x strategy game where the Roman empire is soon using stealth bombers to destroy the Aztecs' musketeers (or whatever), and I know no one wants that. (Or rather, when we do want it, we play a Civilization-type game.)

[Dagon]

How about including roman inventions from the imperial time as high end tech (imperial will probably not be part of the game, or only for a short while at the end)? That way it wouldnt be too awkward having the tech at the ed of the tree and there would be some "high-tech" stuff. I think for example that the romasn had something similar to the crossbow from 100AD onwards etc.

[bobbin]

Could be good in theory as long as you didn't go crazy with it. My ideal game has always been something that would combine TW with Civ.

[karlyp123]

My ideal game has always been something that would combine TW with Civ.

Spot on mate . It would be brilliant if they did a TW which could allow you (potentially) completely re-write history. ie, The Roman Empire never splits in 2, doesn't fall in 476 AD and eventually becomes a world super-power or it could fall sooner if managed poorly.

Karlyp123 over and out

[Asgaroth]

So, should technological advancements be limited to what was achieved in classical antiquity, or should it be possible to discover things never discovered then, but only rarely? (In most games you'll probably never get to the "beyond antiquity" techs.)

I'm talking about things that the Romans were maybe on the verge of being able to create, and which might already be present in China, and which were certainly invented at some point in the future, perhaps in the middle ages or renaissance.

They were probably able but the fact is that they didn't do anything like that and we can only think of what could they have done, but we have no proof that they did past what they did.

[Lord Baal]

It's kind of funny that Rome had a lot of engineering and they could in theory employ a lot of improvements that could ease the intense labors, however they liked the slaves to do the work, apparently just for the lulz hahahaha... and to maintain the whole status quo, society structure and what not...

[krisslanza]

It's kind of funny that Rome had a lot of engineering and they could in theory employ a lot of improvements that could ease the intense labors, however they liked the slaves to do the work, apparently just for the lulz hahahaha... and to maintain the whole status quo, society structure and what not...

I think it's less "for the lulz" and more that Romans were basically a bunch of stuck-up, self-righteous jerks.

[Lord Baal]

I think it's less "for the lulz" and more that Romans were basically a bunch of stuck-up, self-righteous jerks.

So, for the lulz....

[Humble Warrior]

I think it's less "for the lulz" and more that Romans were basically a bunch of stuck-up, self-righteous jerks.

Call them what you like, even hate on them for they certainly weren`t the nicest of people to almost anyone, even themselves. But it worked. And for a very long time too.

You don`t survive long in the ancient world if you`re nice.

[krisslanza]

Call them what you like, even hate on them for they certainly weren`t the nicest of people to almost anyone, even themselves. But it worked. And for a very long time too.

You don`t survive long in the ancient world if you`re nice.

Only in video games can you survive for a long time on being nice.

[Lord Baal]

But on Total War if you are nice the other factions smell weakness on you and start declaring war left and right on you.

[krisslanza]

But on Total War if you are nice the other factions smell weakness on you and start declaring war left and right on you.

They pretty much do that even if your army could crush them all with their pinky.

[Lord Baal]

Regardless of the size of your army, if you don't show power they will all gang up on you like that scene from the movie where the girl is raped over the pinball game.

[krisslanza]

Regardless of the size of your army, if you don't show power they will all gang up on you like that scene from the movie where the girl is raped over the pinball game.

Again, in my experience, it doesn't matter how strong you are, the AI is going to war dec you anyway.
And by being nice I meant to the people. Low taxes, daily games...

[Fabricus]

It could work, but then the game would be too technical based for my liking. I pretty much just want to wage war and govern cities.

[Julio-Claudian]

I think it would be cool if it were possible, but I don't think it should/will be possible. There are so many things which were invented in antiquity that are generally thought to have first been around in like the 18th century. The steam engine was invented in by Heron in Alexandria during the first century but it was never put to any practical use. There was also a sort of railway going across the Isthmus of Corinth. Imagine what could have been done if things had happened differently.
I think stuff like that would change everything far too much for it to be included in the game.

Things like the Nemi Ships and the Antikythera mechanism are really quite amazing though.