Automatic desertion of leaderless armies?

[Terramotus]

Hey... wonderful mod, guys. I'm playing the Byzantines in the early campaign. It's 1152, during the Bulgarian rebellion. The problem is... the vast majority of any leaderless armies I move outside of the cities deserts the very next turn. The rate looks like about 70%. I've run through my saves a few times and it keeps happening.

Is this a scripted event that I can't do anything about? It doesn't seem to be confined to that geographical area of the rebellion. It doesn't seem to be related to happiness in my settlements. Is there any way to mitigate this problem? What's causing it?

It's making it virtually impossible for me to respond to... well, anything, and is just about making the game unplayable.

[Alextotalwar]

i am playing with HRE (holy roman empire) and experienced massive rebellions from leaderless armies early on my campaign, like during turns 40 to 50 or something, i guess this tends to happens sometimes, but i think the game balances this buy rebelling other factions armies as well, sometimes a full stack enemy army would rebel the next turn, sometimes it would be my army, just keep going. it will eventually stop and happen later again, hehe. I haven't played with the bysantine empire but if you say the Bulgarian rebellion event is on then that should be normal for you to see your armies rebel. On my campaign i am experiencing something quite different, i was excommunicated 20 turns ago and now many of my generals are rebelling! i even have to take them off the settlement to prevent it from rebelling along with my general!

[Terramotus]

That just seems kind of nonsensical. I understand rebellions happened historically, but really? EVERY army without a member of the royal family attached just deserts? I'm curious if someone in the know could point out what exactly is causing this.

I'm curious if someone in the know could give a justification as to why something like this is in the game, as opposed to a more constant (or controllable) chance of rebellion. I mean, I understand there's a rebellion going on in Bulgaria, but my army outside Luxor deserts as well?

[Byg]

Your leader needs higher authority so use him more to get that first.

If not using bgr you can get civil war, relatively randomly, and can view this developing in traits.

If using Any bgr mod you are supposed to use generals / nobles to lead armies. Unlead armies just end up wildly foraging and pillaging, leading to them becoming armed gangs or rebels, depending upon the authority of the king. The larger the army you field without leadership, the more likely they will rebel.

If using bgrIV your actions may also cause rebellions by breaking laws and defying orders.

[Stario]

Also to add:

Firstly, always use Generals to lead your armies (the mod tries to simulate that medieval armies were led by Noblemen/Generals & not Captains). I also believe captains ruin the whole supply system so it would otherwise be more efficient to just lay siege with captain armies and thus not suffer the ill-effects of waging war for indefinite amounts of time-for example try staying in the field for too long with a General and soon he will start getting bad traits and morale penalties etc. An army with a leader wont (usually) rebel unless your nobles pick up some bad traits like absent minded etc.

Finally, if you must move leaderless armies separate the army into single units and move them in such fashion (it will drastically reduce the probability of any unit(s) rebelling), and if it does, chances are it will only happen to a single unit. A single unit can easily be squished on the next turn, and give that said General some exp. while at it.

[Duck of Death]

Also also add:

If you want to keep a large leader-less army in the field (guarding a bridge or whatever) always put them in a cheap fort before you end the turn. They wont rebel in a fort.

[Logios]

If there is too long between your castles/settlements you should place forts at strategical points with just one cheap decimated unit as a cheap permanent garrison. Remember to "measure" the distance from all the settlements you want the fort to service by clicking on an infantry unit (or an artillery unit) in each place. Using forts as "truck stops" will make it possible to move units effectively between settlements without the risk of those units rebelling.

[Desperado Outlaw]

Or, you can just disable BGR IV, simple as that. Good Luck.

[Ultra123]

indeed, BGR just adds frustration rather then difficulty for me.

[Byg]

Yes I expect it does, it is aimed at about 1 in 10 players: those who don't quit and like a challenge There is even a warning in the SS installer and on the BGR page to try and put most people off.

Regarding the original post though, I am at turn 188 in my current campaign and lost 1 unit to desertion. It's just a question of learning to play.

[SleepySteve]

Yes I expect it does, it is aimed at about 1 in 10 players: those who don't quit and like a challenge There is even a warning in the SS installer and on the BGR page to try and put most people off.

Regarding the original post though, I am at turn 188 in my current campaign and lost 1 unit to desertion. It's just a question of learning to play.

BYG, can you list off some of the way's to get your general authority? Is winning battles the only way? I haven't really vested any care in my generals/family tree since they die in like 10 turns anyways, but if it's what I need to do to prevent this from happenning I will do it. I just made a thread about this topic. I looked at the trait guide to try to get an answer, but it makes no sense to me at all.

[Ichon]

Winning battles is the main way but if you leave your FL in a castle long enough in version before BGR V I think SS can add some authority traits. I think ordering assassinations might give some authority traits as well though BGR V does away with SS traits so that only matters for earlier verions but if you are losing your FL often you will have a huge problem with rebellion form leaderless troops as most new FL start with low authority though you do get a short 3-4 turns boost in zeal.

I like alot of aspects of BGR and learning the system definitely decreases frustrations and adds replayability but in the long run I think the WC system is a bit too inflexible for my preferences. I've had much more interest with low loyalty governors being frozen in their fiefs and that way rebellious traits or other things actually matter more and decrease tax revenues which matter much more for the other BGR changes such as supplies that make economy a bit more challenging. Ideally there would be enough incentives to keep governors in their fiefs for manpower and taxation but poor FL or other events could cause faction wide issues controlled by governors with 0 movement traits.

[dahooscarl]

Why are your family members dying in 10 turns?

[SleepySteve]

Why are your family members dying in 10 turns?

Lol i was Exhagerating a bit there, but seriously they dont last long enough to make me care about them. Thats one of the things i think shogun 2 improved over previous titles. I get very attached to my generals and agents in s2, since you can keep them the duration of the game.

[dahooscarl]

You can mod the ageing script of your family members and agents to reflect the number of turns per years if thats your problem.

[Ichon]

Weird, I have opposite reaction in S2 as all my generals are exactly the same and I barely even notice which one is the Daimyo. In MTW2 mods with the varied traits and characteristics generals are much more interesting and better roleplay. Also I enjoy having a general for 30-50 turns and then the next generation as a really fantastic general that puts his accomplishments in perspective.

[Ulsterman]

I'm kinda a cheapskate, so as Scotland I put a stack of merchants with a small army on the Galway Silver mine and rake in the cash- but my army always rebels killing 10 or so merchants. Delete the line 'Rebelling_Characters_Active' in the descr_strat and that should fix the problem (I also added free upkeep for 6 units in forts).