Preview: Dar al-Islam, revealing the Islamic world

[Colos1987]

Amazing, as always. I see that conquering Egypt will be very hard, since you have to fight through many settlements when you march southwars along the Nile! It will be as hard to crack as Northern Italy, I suppose! Looking forward to it!

C

Edit: Where is the southern border of the map? Is any part of Sudan/Makuria/Nubia included?

[Landil]

The map reaches south to include the northern part of the Sahel (from Senegal in the west to northern Ethiopia in the east), so yes, Nubia is fully included.

[Vipman]

Well looking at the minimap of this pic from the Maghreb preview will show how much south it goes

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Landil]

Please note that, though the extent of the map has stayed the same as in that screenshot's minimap, regional borders and ownership have changed quite a bit since then.

[Colos1987]

Ah, thanks!

C

[Landil]

By knowing how to study Google Earth imagery for traces of where the medieval nucleus of a still existing settlement was. There are a lot of things that an untrained eye doesn't see, but what you will see once you know what you're looking for (in my case, I've been studying Historical Demography and Geography for over three years).

In the case of Asyut, the medieval town was located inside the walls of the Hellenic/Roman one (27°11'0.36"N, 31°6'48.76"E), which lie 5 km away from the modern city, which has no traces of medieval settlement at all. Minya, on the other hand, still has its medieval nucleus at its centre. It can be distinguished from the modern parts of the city by its dense and irregular building pattern, as well as its over all elliptic shape which was very common in medieval Egyptian cities (see for example the ruins of Tinnis of which I gave the coordinates in the preview).

[Admiral Piett]

Indeed. I've been pin marking hundreds of locations on google earth where ancient and medieval settlements once were. Its really fun!

[Landil]

If you want to have fun with marking historical settlements, go to the Balkh oasis, it has hundreds (yes, literally hundreds!) of ancient and medieval Qal'e (forts/castles), which shows once again that the Middle East knew manorialism (though of course in a different form) to an extent that most of Europe could not match.

Of course, abandoned cities are also amazing, like 37°40'52.33"N, 59°16'44.09"E, 38°16'14.86"N, 54°37'30.02"E, or 42°51'9.22"N, 89°31'41.02"E

[Mads]

Cool, my post was mostly a joke, but i see why you could have thought of it as serious. Next question is - how do I check up on the coordinates? I cant just google-map-search-it.

[Admiral Piett]

Cool, my post was mostly a joke, but i see why you could have thought of it as serious. Next question is - how do I check up on the coordinates? I cant just google-map-search-it.

Yes you can. Every one of his coordinates works on google maps. Just don't forget that you have to include the N and E coordinates. Google earth is better though.

Landil, those are some fantastic finds! I've already found some information on them. The first one is the remains of Nisa, built by Arsaces I and became a major Parthian royal stronghold. It was destroyed by an earthquake in the 1st century BC. The second one is Mishrian (or Dahistan) which was a major Khwarezmian site destroyed by the Mongols. The third one is Gaochang, once an ancient Yuezhi site that became a major city under the Han. It was destroyed by Chagatai Mongols. Thanks for that, man. I learned three new things today.

[Landil]

Actually, you're wrong on the first one. Those are the ruins of Chugundor, a Seljuq-founded city. Nisa consists of two beautifully conserved ruins much nearer to Ashgabat than Chugundor, namely at 37°58'0.08"N, 58°11'55.55"E and 37°57'58.61"N, 58°11'56.81"E. The southern ruins are those of the Parthian palatial complex, which remained mostly administrative and military in function. The northern ruins are an urban settlement that came into existence besides the Parthian palace when the Parthian Empire grew in size and power and commerce became important to the region. The assumption that Nisa was destroyed by an earthquake in the 1st century BC is a lie, as the state in which the ruins were preserved show that any damage done by earthquakes is not adequate to call it 'destruction'. However, it did cause the gradual abandonment of the southern, palatial settlement. The northern settlement seems to have survived, becoming known as Konjikala (Turkmen), or better said Kohne Qal'e (Persian), meaning Old Castle (an apt name, wouldn't you say ). This settlement survived as a silk road stop until the Mongols arrived in the 13th century, when cities like Chugundor completely took over the old capital's role of a commercial and administrative regional centre.

Also, Misriyan was not Khwarazmian, it was Dahestani, which is why the city was also know as Dahestan, because in Iran (Persia is not the correct name, it has never been in any place but Europe, blame the Greeks who called it Persis!) it was common usage to call the capital city of a region by the same name as the region. Other examples are: Kerman, which is still today the capital of Kerman (but was also known as Guvashir in the Middle Ages). Zaranj, which was also known as Sistan in the Middle Ages, which is still the name of the region. Urgench, which was also known as Khwarazm (and the earlier capital of Khwarazm, Kat, was also known as this).

So you learned another two things today

[Diglytron]

Wow! guys thats amazing! thanks a lot! Made my morning!

Future filmaker, how did you found out what happend there? I found some settlements myself, but can't say what happend there. And why they are disbanded?

Landil, how did you find those? the last two are quite far away from civelesation and stuff

[Landil]

Lots and lots of searching, Digly

Another very interesting one is Shahrazur, a Kurdish city that is mentioned in various historical records, but has seemingly disappeared from the map entirely. The only thing linking to its existence is the fact that the region that the city was supposedly located in is also called Shahrazur.

Thing is, I seem to have found it before anyone else (there is no mention anywhere of it ever having been found). It's right here: 35°21'35.98"N, 45°38'59.19"E, at the very centre of the plain of Shahrazur. The layout of the ruins; a tell (artificial mound) very reminiscent of nearby Kirkuk and Arbil, showing that it's a very old settlement indeed. This is in agreement with the historical documentation, which mention it as a foundation of the Sassanian king Qabād I, though as with many other cities, the actual settlement probably predates the 'foundation' of the city. All by all, one of my most interesting discoveries ever.

[Admiral Piett]

Hmm, curiously, I can find absolutely nothing on a 'Chugundor'. Not even a wiki article or obscure Turkish website that might have it. My google, bing, and yahoo search results come up totally blank. There are also no pictures hosted on any of the search engines either of the site. How did you find it out? I'm totally lost on any information on this site.

I got my information on Nisa from a wiki article, but it doesn't show the source of the earthquake theory. Figures.

On Mishrian, it states that settlement in the area predates even the Dahae, but the remains we see today were mostly built by Khwarezm according to the UNESCO heritage page.

[Landil]

Chugundor is indeed very obscure. When I first stumbled upon the ruins, I had no idea what place it had been, but there are a few mentions of the place that point towards these ruins being Chugundor. One of the few websites that mentions it is this one, look under Kufen.

Mentions about places having been occupied since the whatever millennium BC should usually not be cared about, because they say nothing about actual urban settlement (they're usually based on something silly like: 'Oh, we found a flint arrowhead! This place must have been important back then!' ). I'm not entirely sure about Misriyan, but my guess is that as an urban settlement it probably doesn't go further back than the 1st millennium BC. By then, the region was certainly inhabited by the Sakai, who throughout that millennium quickly urbanised due to pressure from the outside. By the early Middle Ages, it was clearly an important Persian trade stop (with perhaps a small Turkish presence as well), which is why the Kwarazmshahs were interested in developing it further.

[Admiral Piett]

Chugundor is indeed very obscure. When I first stumbled upon the ruins, I had no idea what place it had been, but there are a few mentions of the place that point towards these ruins being Chugundor. One of the few websites that mentions it is this one, look under Kufen.

Mentions about places having been occupied since the whatever millennium BC should usually not be cared about, because they say nothing about actual urban settlement (they're usually based on something silly like: 'Oh, we found a flint arrowhead! This place must have been important back then!' ). I'm not entirely sure about Misriyan, but my guess is that as an urban settlement it probably doesn't go further back than the 1st millennium BC. By then, the region was certainly inhabited by the Sakai, who throughout that millennium quickly urbanised due to pressure from the outside. By the early Middle Ages, it was clearly an important Persian trade stop (with perhaps a small Turkish presence as well), which is why the Kwarazmshahs were interested in developing it further.

Well, it sits right in the Oxus civilization zone during the Bronze Age. It's other wise called the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex. It covers a range from the eastern border of the Hyrcania region east into Bactria and Sogdiana.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

But like you said, Bronze Age stuff is where historical fact tends to break down into legend.

[Y Brenin]

Really good work on these previews Landil, well done. It's nice to see the Islamic world getting the attention it rarely does outside of Broken Crescent, especially as it is the 'cradle of civilisation' and was in many ways more advanced than Christendom.

Also, thanks for including those co-ordinates. Viewing those ancient sites on Google Earth is both awe-inspiring and profoundly eerie at the same, particularly when contrasting the vast scale of the overhead view with the intimacy of a photograph of age-old graffiti.

Landil, you are truly part of what is making DotS so great and simply must be generously showered with rep.

[Landil]

Well, Misriyan actually falls outside the BMAC zone. However, it is clear that the oases of Khorasan are amongst the earliest inhabited regions in the world. Well known settlements of the Margiana part of the BMAC zone are Altyn-depe (36°51'31.69"N, 60°26'0.69"E), Anau (37°53'47.07"N, 58°32'43.35"E) and Gonur (38°12'49.38"N, 62°2'16.05"E).

In other news, preview 4 will hopefully be done either tonight or tomorrow.

[Diodredai]

Fixed that for ya:

In other news, preview 4 will be done tonight.

NOW GET TO WORK

[Landil]

A preview is never late, it arrives precisely when it means to.