Thoughts on the modelling of slingers

[Shigawire]

My take on how slingers ought to be modelled in Rome 2.

Here are some possible types that can be included:

Regular stone slingers.
Large stone slingers (250 grams, unique to Balearic slingers)
Clay bullet slingers
Lead bullet slingers
Staff slingers


Some slingers, such as the Balearic slingers, had 3 different slings on them at all times. Long range, medium range and short range. The 2 that were not in use, were tied around their heads or waists. These slingers were the most accurate.

Due to the physics involved, professional slingers (not the ad hoc militia slingers) should always outrange archers. War arrows of this era had a maximum range of 150-200 meters. Many scholars, including Connolly and Korfmann, estimates the range of sling at above 350 meters for the professional slinger.

When slingers are in "long range" mode, they need much more space in their formation than a unit of bowmen. This loose formation makes them very vulnerable from a cavalry attack. Archers can easily fire in an upwards arc without hitting the guy in front of them. A sling requires more space.
When the enemy is in close range, the slingers can stand in close formation to do the underhand movement, and get some small defense bonus due to close formation. But only the first rank of slingers can fire - because they fire almost directly forwards.

Slinger damage to chainmail clad troops ignores the armor, because the kinetic damage is passed directly to the skin via the chainmail. Contusion and damage to intestines and bones can often be mortal.
Chainmail is still good vs cutting swords, and some thrusting weapons.

Summary:

Archer
Range 200 m
Very high rate of fire
Arcing fire, better behind a wall or mound - useful in same way as the howitzer
Close formation providing more firepower in less space, and better defense against attack. Loose formation optional
High damage on unarmored targets - does not penetrate chainmail, some kinetic energy still transmitted.


Slinger
Balearic range 350-400 m
Professional range 300-350 m
Militia range 200-250 m - inaccurate
Less arcing than bowmen
Lower rate of fire
Must be in "loose formation" in order to fire that far, making it cumbersome to use in some battlefields.
When in close formation, only the front rank fires.
Very High damage to all unarmored and chainmail.
Large Sling stones cause damage on all armor, except large shields.
Long recruitment time for professional slingers, due to the steep learning curve.

Sources:
Diodorus Siculus

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Battle of Eknomos, Sicily, 311 B.C.

But when Hamilcar saw that his men were being overpowered and that the Greeks in constantly increasing number were making their way into the camp, he brought up his slingers, who came from the Baliaric Islands and numbered at least a thousand. By hurling a shower of great stones, they wounded many and even killed not a few of those who were attacking, and they shattered the defensive armour of most of them. For these men, who are accustomed to sling stones weighing a mina, contribute a great deal toward victory in battle, since from childhood they practise constantly with the sling. In this way they drove the Greeks from the camp and defeated them.

Their equipment for fighting consists of three slings, and of these they keep one around the head, another around the belly, and the third in the hands. In the business of war they hurl much larger stones than do any other slingers, and with such force that the missile seems to have been shot, as it were, from a catapult; consequently, in their assaults upon walled cities, they strike the defenders on the battlements and disable them, and in pitched battles they crush both shields and helmets and every kind of protective armour. And they are so accurate in their aim that in the majority of cases they never miss the target before them. The reason for this is the continual practice which they get from childhood, in that their mothers compel them, while still young boys, to use the sling continually; for there is set up before them as a target a piece of bread fastened to a stake, and the novice is not permitted to eat until he has hit the bread, whereupon he takes it from his mother with her permission and devours it.

Vegetius Renatus

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Recruits are to be taught the art of throwing stones both with the hand and sling. The inhabitants of the Balearic Islands are said to have been the inventors of slings, and to have managed them with surprising dexterity, owing to the manner of bringing up their children. The children were not allowed to have their food by their mothers till they had first struck it with their sling. Soldiers, notwithstanding their defensive armor, are often more annoyed by the round stones from the sling than by all the arrows of the enemy. Stones kill without mangling the body, and the contusion is mortal without loss of blood. It is universally known the ancients employed slingers in all their engagements. There is the greater reason for instructing all troops, without exception, in this exercise, as the sling cannot be reckoned any incumbrance, and often is of the greatest service, especially when they are obliged to engage in stony places, to defend a mountain or an eminence, or to repulse an enemy at the attack of a castle or city

Xenophon

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[3.3.13] As to what happened, however, when we did pursue, you are quite right: we were no better able to inflict harm upon the enemy, and it was only with the utmost difficulty that we effected our own withdrawal. [3.3.14] Let us thank the gods, therefore, that they came, not with a large force, but with a handful, so that without doing us any great damage they have revealed our needs. [3.3.15] For at present the enemy can shoot arrows and sling stones so far that neither our Cretan bowmen nor our javelin-men can reach them in reply; and when we pursue them, a long chase, away from our main body, is out of the question, and in a short chase no foot-soldier, even if he is swift, can overtake another foot-soldier who has a bow-shot the start of him. [3.3.16] Hence, if we should propose to put an end to the possibility of their harming us on our march, we need slingers ourselves at once, and horsemen also. Now I am told that there are Rhodians in our army, that most of them understand the use of the sling, and that their missile carries no less than twice as far as those from the Persian slings. [3.3.17] For the latter have only a short range because the stones that are used in them are as large as the hand can hold; the Rhodians, however, are versed also in the art of slinging leaden bullets. [3.3.18] If, therefore, we should ascertain who among them possess slings, and should not only pay these people for their slings, but likewise pay anyone who is willing to plait new ones, and if, furthermore, we should devise some sort of exemption for the man who will volunteer to serve as a slinger at his appointed post, it may be that men will come forward who will be capable of helping us.

[3.4.15] But when the Rhodian slingers and the bowmen, posted at intervals here and there, sent back an answering volley, and not a man among them missed his mark (for even if he had been very eager to do so, it would not have been easy),1 then Tissaphernes withdrew out of range with all speed, and the other battalions followed his example.

[3.4.16] For the rest of the day the one army continued its march and the other its pursuit. And the barbarians were no longer1 able to do any harm by their skirmishing at long range; for the Rhodian slingers carried farther with their missiles than the Persians, farther even than the Persian bowmen. [3.4.17] The Persian bows are also1 large, and consequently the Cretans could make good use of all the arrows that fell into their hands; in fact, they were continually using the enemy's arrows, and practised themselves in long-range work by shooting them into the air.2 In the villages, furthermore, the Greeks found gut in abundance and lead for the use of their slingers.

[emperor77]

Probably gonna get a simplistic portrayal of slingers akin to Rome 1, can't have combat mechanics that need actual thinking, lest battles become too complex for the masses.

[Glaumir]

Probably gonna get a simplistic portrayal of slingers akin to Rome 1, can't have combat mechanics that need actual thinking, lest battles become too complex for the masses.

Are you telling me you don't want rock-paper-scissors combat? Preposterous.

[Fabricus]

Probably gonna get a simplistic portrayal of slingers akin to Rome 1, can't have combat mechanics that need actual thinking, lest battles become too complex for the masses.

No, we couldn't have that now, could we...

[Markas]

Plus, they annoy Mr. Wilson from next door.

I would have Slingers restricted to certain Provinces, simply to ensure their uniqueness and to have it hurt you if you lose the province(s).

[Shigawire]

Hey, it puts a new meaning to the word "rock paper scissors"

[Asgaroth]

Probably gonna get a simplistic portrayal of slingers akin to Rome 1, can't have combat mechanics that need actual thinking, lest battles become too complex for the masses.

I agree, but they can still add this as a technology upgrade ?

I mean you can upgrade :

Regular stone slingers.
Large stone slingers (250 grams, unique to Balearic slingers)
Clay bullet slingers
Lead bullet slingers
Staff slingers

It would be quite cool ?

[Eofor]

My take on how slingers ought to be modelled in Rome 2.

Here are some possible types that can be included:

Regular stone slingers.
Large stone slingers (250 grams, unique to Balearic slingers)
Clay bullet slingers
Lead bullet slingers
Staff slingers


Some slingers, such as the Balearic slingers, had 3 different slings on them at all times. Long range, medium range and short range. The 2 that were not in use, were tied around their heads or waists. These slingers were the most accurate.

Due to the physics involved, professional slingers (not the ad hoc militia slingers) should always outrange archers. War arrows of this era had a maximum range of 150-200 meters. Many scholars, including Connolly and Korfmann, estimates the range of sling at above 350 meters for the professional slinger.

When slingers are in "long range" mode, they need much more space in their formation than a unit of bowmen. This loose formation makes them very vulnerable from a cavalry attack. Archers can easily fire in an upwards arc without hitting the guy in front of them. A sling requires more space.
When the enemy is in close range, the slingers can stand in close formation to do the underhand movement, and get some small defense bonus due to close formation. But only the first rank of slingers can fire - because they fire almost directly forwards.

Slinger damage to chainmail clad troops ignores the armor, because the kinetic damage is passed directly to the skin via the chainmail. Contusion and damage to intestines and bones can often be mortal.
Chainmail is still good vs cutting swords, and some thrusting weapons.

Summary:

Archer
Range 200 m
Very high rate of fire
Arcing fire, better behind a wall or mound - useful in same way as the howitzer
Close formation providing more firepower in less space, and better defense against attack. Loose formation optional
High damage on unarmored targets - does not penetrate chainmail, some kinetic energy still transmitted.


Slinger
Balearic range 350-400 m
Professional range 300-350 m
Militia range 200-250 m - inaccurate
Less arcing than bowmen
Lower rate of fire
Must be in "loose formation" in order to fire that far, making it cumbersome to use in some battlefields.
When in close formation, only the front rank fires.
Very High damage to all unarmored and chainmail.
Large Sling stones cause damage on all armor, except large shields.
Long recruitment time for professional slingers, due to the steep learning curve.

Sources:
Diodorus Siculus


Vegetius Renatus


Xenophon

That seems like a very interesting idea, but I don't think you're taking into account people like the Scythians and Cretans who were supposed to have been very good archers and who used composite bows giving them much more range than a farmer using the same bow he uses to hunt rabbits.
And to be honest I think making slingers do higher damage and having better range than archers would make them overpowered.
By the way, weren't staff slings only used in sieges?

[athanaric]

And to be honest I think making slingers do higher damage and having better range than archers would make them overpowered.

They're cumbersome to deploy and use as a unit, so that would balance things out a bit.

[Shigawire]

Ah, yes well it would obviously require hands-on balancing. Just setting the premise for a discussion. The balancing would be reducing damage for slingers. To begin with, the spacing would make them very cumbersome, and the long recruitment time for professionals. Also could have maximum 2 - 5 units of Balearic slingers in the whole world. Etc