Buildings, too specialized cities/regions and game balance.

[Bethencourt]

Hi! This for CA eyes to read.

The previous warscape games were designed in the way that cities had differnt number of building slots, this could seem logical as in reality regions are different in their economical potential and facilities, but in game it resulted in an unbalanced and no realitic end. What is that if AI has only one, or few regions then it makes armies of just one kind of units, I have seen artillery armies in Napoleon, archers armies in Shogun II, and trade ship main fleets in Empire. All of this happening while in the first games as Rome or even Medieval II there were cities with more development possibilities so the AI ended up recruiting better balanced armies. Even for human player this is a bit annoying as to build up balanced army you have to send your units form 'coast to coast' and AI is not so good at it.

Please, make cities have more slots, or buildings with ability to recruit several types of units so you and the AI can develop them and achieve better balanced armies. And, please from the beginning of the game, so it is balanced from then on, so we do not have to wait until turn 30 to see mixed unit types armies. Instead of making the unit roster wider as the buildings develop, why not or at the same time, improve the same starting units with the buildings advances, so the starting roster is varied and the new buildings have the addition of giving them more abilities or tactics.

[Petroniu]

Aww, don't worry! Modders will always fix this aspects of the game. For Shogun 2 you have Darthmod and Radious mods that do exactly what you want.

[Bethencourt]

I am modder too, and I do not want to make the work if it is already done by the designers of the game, that easy.

[Petroniu]

Well man, after all these years and games, CA still doesn't succeeds in properly balancing games, so, for you as a modder, I am afraid you're in it for much longer.

[Bethencourt]

Asking is free, and it is so evident. Making EIC mod for Napoleon campaign, in Holland there was only one artillery builiding when campaign started, so Batavian Republic army in few turns was made just of artillery. That is easy to avoid by the game designer. Adding slots is much harder for the modders once the game is out.

[Petroniu]

Well, of course, I support your initiative, don't get me wrong. What I meant is that CA has a way of always missing something that should've been there and you guys will always have to fix that for the rest of the players.

[AgentGB]

I agree with you Bethencourt

Giving cities more building slots would be more sensible if we can't do away with a limit, although i understand Nero torching areas of rome to make room for new structures, could be reasoned, but shouldn't be a valid point for a argument. Also expanding the building limit could help mods, unless FOTS/Shogun2/N:TW etc are hardcoded at a limit off how many buildings you can have in a city, hence making rome 2 already less modable for total conversions if they repeat this.

Saying such things has, leave it for the modders, when modder themselves are talking about game mechanics, that could be the bases on what can restrict a mod from achieveing a certain goal, due to hardcoded limit/restriction is not very well thought out. Also although i hope Darth will continue his great work when R:2 is released, vouching for them must speak volumes about them, since they haven't look at the thread and can speak on if its feasbile or not.... unless Petroniu knows for sure this can be fixed..... otherwise your out of yur depth sonny jim to make such statements, unless it adding a texture or somthing, or common knowledge that it can already be altered, changed now by modders....

[Petroniu]

Geez, I am not vouching for anyone. I just gave an example. Plus, as I said before, modders will always tweak TW games because CA doesn't give so much attention to some areas of the game as they should. I never said that I am against what he is doing here. It's a great initiative, but really, a thread among so many other is easily lost. A matter like this should be taken and presented at the modding summit, you should tell someone that goes there to bring this up too.

unless Petroniu knows for sure this can be fixed...

Also, don't make me look like the bad guy here. I never talked about game mechanics, facts and such. I was just saying that modders will always mod the game to a better gameplay experience, that is all.

[Bethencourt]

Also, don't make me look like the bad guy here. I never talked about game mechanics, facts and such. I was just saying that modders will always mod the game to a better gameplay experience, that is all.

Don't worry I never saw you like that and I do not think that was his intention when he mentioned you. Let's keep this to the OP.

[AgentGB]

Its called lack of foresight which you have, and Bethencourt has a modder, can see the restriction that may hamper future modders, and is cracking down on it now, its all well and good if he presents it to the summit, but doesn't hurt to have a thread with backing and support in it, to support such a request at a summit. Certain features, when asked for, or requested should be looked at "would this hamper/restrict modding or will this give modder more variety and options to tinker with" that how im thinking all the time, when asking for features/mechanics.... has not to snooker the guys who make the mods, and anything im not to sure about, i don't make bold statements or give input unless i can weight up the pro's & con's, or someone with knowledge can answer the question correctly that i can give backing to, if it helps push for certain features.... and it to late, yur a bad guy now, live with it and learn

[Petroniu]

Sure, sure! Sorry for coming in and almost messing things up! I really hope CA would hear more what modders have to say! Keep it up!

[Bethencourt]

Some one has pointed me this: 'whole legion' recruitment as a CA solution to the problem I expressed in the OP. I searched for it and I found this in another site "Instead of recruiting a unit of archers because you want to use them with cavalry on a siege you just recruit a whole legion." I have not found anyother source of this. Can anyone tell me where can I see CA saying it or any preview I have missed? and also will it work for all factions? Will techs and facilities add new types of soldiers, like artillery, siege machines, or improvements of them to the legion or the other factions main unit?

[emperor77]

I would very much like to see a lot of different buildings again, like in Rome/Medieval II, and none of that boring slot system. Would be nice if they actually appeared on the battle map again.

[Esieson]

As for recruitment balancing, hopefully the "armies as characters" thing will allow you to just recruit an actual army instead of a horde of a single type of unit. Maybe a legion would be the new main unit and be able to recruit subunits additionally like a maniple or turma. Basically recruit by a variety of unit sizes as well as types (i.e., a maniple of hastati, a turma of citizen cavalry).

[Bethencourt]

This is what Jack Lusted says in his stiky thread here

"Q. What is all this talk about reducing micro-management in the campaign, and you dumbing it down?
We are not dumbing it down. The campaign in Rome II will have more depth than ever before. We are also aiming to reduce late game micro-management so players can focus on the game and the new mechanics we are introducing to the campaign game.

Q. Some of the previews have talked lots about armies, and you getting rid of individual units or controlling them?
There will still be individual units. Campaign side we are putting more emphasis on armies and them having a history or legacy. We will talk about this in more details when we begin to preview the campaign in depth as time goes on."

So as he says the units are individual units, then what it is stated in the OP remains, just in case