Tsardoms Total War - FACTION PREVIEW: Banate of Bosnia

[Gorčin]

Mate you are totally wrong. The whole team is completely apolitical and has no interest in any type of discrimination or anything like that. This mod is all about portraying history as accurately as humanly possible. The serbian and croatian units exist purely to represent the populations from the newly conquered territories. Every faction has units from other backgrounds if you bothered to check the other previews. Wallachia and Bulgaria have Tatar units, Serbia has Ragusan units, the Ottomans and Ragusans have Vlach units. If you think this is bad wait till you see factions like the Roman Empire will have a plethora of ethnic units from Albanians to Vlachs and from Western units (Italians, Germans etc) to Turkomans. I don't see where the issue is. The rosters include mercenary units as well, they are not separate. Also, what are you talking about ethnic term? All the units are called Bosnian (Bosnian Speramen, Bosnian Axemen, Bosnian Archers etc). The only units that don't have the Bosnian denomination are the two you mentioned.

Greetings Wallachian.I didnt meant to disrespect your work.I know that you all worked hard to get this mode finished but I really get touchy when i see something unjust and unapropriated you see if you try to represent medieaval bosnia without even mentioning the term bosnjani/bosniak its like making a documentary for great britain in wich you are mentioning scots,irishmen ,men from wales but drop the english.All of thesse croat man at arms or what so ever and serb raiders if (I recall correct)maybe served the bosnian army but certnaly not in such numbers to be atributed in the militay rooster.As far as I know the only mentionig of croats in Bosnia is when the King Tvrtko I called for the bosnian knight Hrvoje Hrvatinić and ackonwlegded his escort to be croats.If someone can enlgihten me and bring up these vast croatian and serbian elements in the bosnian army i would be satisfyed and grateful because you guys certanly know a little bit more of medieval balkan history then I.

[Son of Serbia]

Also, what are you talking about ethnic term?

He would have them named Bošnjaci or Bošnjani. Go figure.

Every faction has units from other backgrounds if you bothered to check the other previews.

Exactly. Mate, Gorčin, instead of focusing solely on the faction you'll be playing all day long, you ought to check the others as well. They're all beautiful, just open your mind. Shows who the political views lie with. Not the team, certainly.

It would be much better if they were mercinary units

No, it wouldn't. Reason? Historical (in)accuracy. They were subjects to Bosnian king (edit: or ban, depending on the period), and were treated as such. They were part of his army, obliged to respond to his call to arms (the appropriate lord being a medium in this "transaction"), not foreign mercenaries. Disturbance with events in recent history should be put aside here, by all of us. You're well aware that Serbs and Croats did live on territories in question (even though the national consciousness wasn't strong then - on the contrary), so I see no reason for you to get overexcited.

[Gorčin]

He would have them named Bošnjaci or Bošnjani. Go figure.

Yes they called themself bosnjani i dont see were is the glitch.

all units are called "Bosnian" which means exactly that, will you translate that with Bošnjak, Bošnjanin, Bosanac or Bosandžeros doesnt concerns us.

You must be the guy who is in charge for bosnian research...

it's just a regional name, nothing more
nationality as we know today does not exist in that time. so bosnian unit means they are originally from region of bosnia
as for croatian and serbian mercs, we know about famous hrvatinic family, and spread of bosnia over serbian regions

Exactly,Phoenix so why are you puting Croatians and Serbs in the bosnian rooster when then there was no nationality then contradictory ha?

[Hrobatos]

all units are called "Bosnian" which means exactly that, will you translate that with Bošnjak, Bošnjanin, Bosanac or Bosandžeros doesnt concerns us.

[phoenix[illusion]]

it's just a regional name, nothing more
nationality as we know today does not exist in that time. so bosnian unit means they are originally from region of bosnia
as for croatian and serbian mercs, we know about famous hrvatinic family, and spread of bosnia over serbian regions

[thekingsmen]

it's just a regional name, nothing more
nationality as we know today does not exist in that time. so bosnian unit means they are originally from region of bosnia
as for croatian and serbian mercs, we know about famous hrvatinic family, and spread of bosnia over serbian regions

hrvatinics are born in bosnia,why are they called croats?they werent catholic,they had the same lilicum on their heraldy as the kotromanic later??? hrvoje vas born in kotor same as the father of kotromanics family!

[DobroVece]

Really? Cause I'm fapping since I was about 10-11.
Kidding ofc, thanks for your support.

[Bosnian_King]

Bosnjanin certainly was not a teritorijal name but an ethnic/ political name if you ask me. Because belonging to a nation/people/ ethnicity in the late middle ages was nothing more than belonging to a certain political framework= state, kingdom etc.

I think that the text is quite good. Only I would approach the Bosnian church more from a political point of view rather than talking about Bogomils but OK. The maker of the text choose to take the more classical approach which is ok.

It would be better if also the "horion bosona" (land of Bosnia) from 950. was also short mentioned as the first mention of Bosnia. Because the banate of Bosnia did not fall from the heaven in the 12. century when the hungarians decided to do so; it was mentioned that a Bosnian principality (knezevina) existed in 950.

[phoenix[illusion]]

Bosnjanin certainly was not a teritorijal name but an ethnic/ political name if you ask me. Because belonging to a nation/people/ ethnicity in the late middle ages was nothing more than belonging to a certain political framework= state, kingdom etc.

i was thinking about that, more like name of kingdom those people live in, but you call that political name. like f.e. aragon soldiers will be called aragonese spearmen, since they served the king of aragon etc. other naming would just make more nowadays problems

[Bosnian_King]

i was thinking about that, more like name of kingdom those people live in, but you call that political name. like f.e. aragon soldiers will be called aragonese spearmen, since they served the king of aragon etc. other naming would just make more nowadays problems

I think it is more complicated. When the kindom of Bosnia conquered parts of Croatia and parts of Serbia the documents mention those people still as Serbs and Croats. Very clear does king Tvrtko call the people of Hlivno and Kljuc as Croats never as Bosnjani (Bosnians)

What is more important the documents make a distinction between the Bosnians (Bosnjani and Croats) for instance in the document about the Visocki stanak. Why this distinction when they all lived in the bosnian kingdom? The Croats which were mentioned there live for about 100 years in Bosnia but Tvrtko calls them Croats and says that Bosnians and those Croats were present (the Croats of Hrvoje.) Tvrtko even calls Hrvoje himself indirect as a Croat and says that the Bosnians welcomed him. Why? Hrvoje was a Bosnian magnate but Tvrtko calls him a Croat...

Also the Serbs and Bosnians are distinctioned in a lot of documents which were written in the time of the Bosnian invasion in Raska. And king Tvrtko I himself makes a distinction when he explaines his right on both the bosnian and serbian crown with the words:

"On the Serbian crown I have the right because my granfathers the Serbs (His grandmother was serbian from the Nemanjic dinasty we know)"

And then he in the same document says about his right on the bosnian crown:

"On the Bosnian crown I have the right because of the grandfathers of the kingdom: my Bosnian forefathers."

Further sources mention the

"Bosnians of Tvrtko and Croats of Palizna"

which were sieging Vrana in the time of Tvrtko I. I can continue till tomorrow but I think that it is clear that it is a complex matery. Not all the Croats and Serbs which lived in Bosnia became automathically "Bosnjani" there is no doubt about that.

[thekingsmen]

Bosnjanin certainly was not a teritorijal name but an ethnic/ political name if you ask me. Because belonging to a nation/people/ ethnicity in the late middle ages was nothing more than belonging to a certain political framework= state, kingdom etc.

I think that the text is quite good. Only I would approach the Bosnian church more from a political point of view rather than talking about Bogomils but OK. The maker of the text choose to take the more classical approach which is ok.

It would be better if also the "horion bosona" (land of Bosnia) from 950. was also short mentioned as the first mention of Bosnia. Because the banate of Bosnia did not fall from the heaven in the 12. century when the hungarians decided to do so; it was mentioned that a Bosnian principality (knezevina) existed in 950.

false,bosnia vas caled turkish croatia after it felt to the turkish empire,exept those towns who acepted the ungaryc-croatian king!
the bosnian king il find the quote later demanded that the priest asistants (whom he alowed to be scoled by his own priests) talk the languige of the people(narodni govor)but in the latin version it says lingua croaticum!!!

+ in BOBOVAC(FORT IN THE HILL OF THE CAPITAL CITY OF BOSNIAN KINGDOM) or kraljeva sutjeska(kings courthouse,the name of the actual tovn,it exists til todaj) there are people who have medieval costoms til today:wedings with the crown on the guys head,(the custom includes a guard on horses which folows the bride and the guy to the church(wich is the museum and the resting place of one bosnian king) the guard used to wear weapons 50,40 jears ago) those same people have the custome(vomen)of puting black scarfs in their hair on the day the last bosnian queen died. the same catholic people like many of the catholic people in bosnia tatoo them self with crosses,it is an medieval custom(when the ottomans captured bosnia they took chilldren from the local population and they took them to istanbull and there they islamized them to make janichari of them,many venetians claim later that croatian is a spoken languige in istambul,by the way)wich priests teached the cathlic population to do to their kids and joung women so the turks wont kidnap them! in the erliers years when the people didnt know the technikes of tatooing they used to cut of newborn babys fingers or hands just so the turkis soldies dont take them away from them!
NOW PEOPLE FROM THAT TOWN ARE CROATS!!


PLEASE ANSWER SOMEONE! in medieval 2 all nations had rebels with their heretics who are in case of bosnia krstjani(so caled,there are historians who claim that they were similar or same as the katars in france) but vere oficialy christians or something else,in the case of medieval bosnia (which vas catholic officially) in this mod u created them as kristjani and not catholic,which is apsurd! so my question is why? bosnia was cathlic at that time and the bishop of bosnia vas actualy a bishop of zadar (croatian town).

i understand that u dont know bosnias history but i think that u were under smomeons (who is false) influenze!

[phoenix[illusion]]

it's all matters of perspective of those documents and all others
serbs, croats and bosniaks have other perspective, and i can read them all, and they all seem logical, so no point of discussion...

f.e. i can view this sentence as other as you did:
"On the Serbian crown I have the right because my granfathers the Serbs"

i can see it as he does not talk about his grandmother, but as his ancestors, many times called as "grandfathers" in plural
so it goes on

same as ninoslav documents where you say he does not talk about himself as serb, but others etc.

[JankoMega]

Nice job.

[Bosnian]

How do I donwload this ?

[Son of Serbia]

You know how they say "if you wish for something strong enough, it will come true"?

You go to www.google.com, type "I really want to download Tsardoms badly" into the search bar, then you close your eyes and you start wishing for it intensely, with all your heart, body and soul. When you feel you have been wishing for it long and strong enough, you open your eyes, press enter, and download "this". Maybe... Or maybe you could wait for it to get finished and released first.



Welcome to the world of TWC, by the way. Usually, people politely introduce themselves in their first post and... Well, who am I kidding - most of the first posts are "how do I download this", "when is this going to be released", "why is there no this faction in this mod" etc...

Cheers.

[Bosnian]

You know how they say "if you wish for something strong enough, it will come true"?

You go to www.google.com, type "I really want to download Tsardoms badly" into the search bar, then you close your eyes and you start wishing for it intensely, with all your heart, body and soul. When you feel you have been wishing for it long and strong enough, you open your eyes, press enter, and download "this". Maybe... Or maybe you could wait for it to get finished and released first.



Welcome to the world of TWC, by the way. Usually, people politely introduce themselves in their first post and... Well, who am I kidding - most of the first posts are "how do I download this", "when is this going to be released", "why is there no this faction in this mod" etc...

Cheers.

LOL,
I am sorry I am new to this foum so please forgive me .
So Hello,
I started playing Total War 1 year ago,
I never used any mod
I live in Bosnia ...
Cheers

[Son of Serbia]

LOL,
I am sorry I am new to this foum so please forgive me .
So Hello,
I started playing Total War 1 year ago,
I never used any mod
I live in Bosnia ...
Cheers

Hehe, I was just joking, no big deal there. If you sniff around the Tsardoms forum a bit, you'll see it's not yet finished. Current estimated release date is supposed to be roughly the beginning of the 2013 (that's the latest news we have heard from the developers of the mod). I guess you'll be playing the Banate of Bosnia (and later Kingdom of Bosnia, if you manage to transform the Banate to it - which I'm sure you will ) in about half a year unless something that would slow down the development team emerges.

[phoenix[illusion]]

they are not in official roster, but more like AoR units...
same will go for other states

[dabela]

amazing

[Basil 11]

Great work. After visiting Bosnia for the first time ever this summer (beautiful country + some of the kindest people I have ever met), it is really interesting to see them as a faction in a total war game - thanks for the preview !