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  1. #1

    Default So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    Now I'm scared again...

    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18996377
    Operating system Windows 8 will be a "catastrophe" for PC game makers, according to Valve Software's boss.
    Speaking at the Casual Connect game conference in Seattle, Gabe Newell said the next version of Windows could mean big changes to the PC market.
    Many took his comment as a criticism of the changed user interface in Windows 8 as well as its built-in Windows Store.
    The Windows Store could dent the success of Valve's own online market, Steam, through which players buy games.
    Hat tricks Mr Newell, who worked for Microsoft for 13 years on Windows, said his company had embraced the open-source software Linux as a "hedging strategy" designed to offset some of the damage Windows 8 was likely to do.
    "We want to make it as easy as possible for the 2,500 games on Steam to run on Linux as well," said Mr Newell.
    "Windows 8 is a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space."
    The arrival of Windows 8 would be likely to drive some PC makers and others out of the business because it put so much pressure on their sales margins, Mr Newell added.
    He said the success of Valve, known for its Half Life, Left4Dead and Portal titles, had been down to the open nature of the PC.
    "We've been a free rider, and we've been able to benefit from everything that went into PCs and the internet," he told the conference. "And we have to continue to figure out how there will be open platforms."
    Microsoft could be "tempted" to make Windows 8 a closed platform, according to Mr Newell
    However, he added, the openness that helped Valve as well as firms such as Google and Zynga could disappear with Windows 8.
    "There's a strong temptation to close the platform," he said, "because they look at what they can accomplish when they limit the competitors' access to the platform, and they say, 'That's really exciting.'"
    This is seen by commentators to be a reference to the inclusion of a Windows Store in the Microsoft operating system.
    This is a shop through which users will be able to buy apps for their Windows 8 device.
    On some versions of Windows 8, it will be the only way to get downloadable software such as games.
    Microsoft takes a cut, up to 30%, of every sale made through this store.
    This could be a significant threat to the massively successful Steam online game store that Valve runs and which gives it a commission on every title sold through the online market.
    A Windows Store closed to everyone but Microsoft might reduce the range of games available for sale through Steam.
    Windows 8's links with Microsoft's Xbox Live online game service could also dent the appeal of Steam for many people.
    Mr Newell said Valve was preparing for the future in other ways. In particular, he said, it was trying to make tools and services that players could use to make games and gaming more fun for everyone.
    "We think the future is very different [from] successes we've had in the past," he said.
    "When you are playing a game, you are trying to think about creating value for other players, so the line between content player and creator is really fuzzy."
    One harbinger of this future was perhaps found, he said, in the success of one Team Fortress player in Kansas who was earning $150,000 (£97,000) a year making virtual hats.
    "This isn't about video games," he said. "It's about thinking about goods and services in a digital world."
    Just LOOKING at that screen scares me. So my question would be for any with more knowledge of windows 8, is it as awful as it seems it could be?
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  2. #2
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    Couldn't they simply have had that be the UI for tablets, but keep the desktop for PCs? I mean, ffs, it's not even practical with a mouse.

  3. #3

    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    Will Windows 8 include CMD?

  4. #4

    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    Windows 8 for desktops has a traditional layout as well as the new UI. But the new UI is great, you have to try it before you knock it.

    Also, Valve is basically saying "Microsoft is going to cut into our Steam sales so Windows 8 is BAAAAAAAAAD."

  5. #5

    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    Quote Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
    Also, Valve is basically saying "Microsoft is going to cut into our Steam sales so Windows 8 is BAAAAAAAAAD."
    That part didn't phase me but I want as many independent sellers of game possible out there. I would never want my game choice limited to any sort of Microsoft owned service.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  6. #6
    Leonidas The Lion's Avatar Until we win! Or die.
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    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    I'm going to be sticking with Win 7 for a couple more years I reckon.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonidas The Lion View Post
    I'm going to be sticking with Win 7 for a couple more years I reckon.
    Same here - for me they've released Windows 8 far too soon after Win 7 - which for me is the best Windows ever.
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  8. #8
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Just LOOKING at that screen scares me. So my question would be for any with more knowledge of windows 8, is it as awful as it seems it could be?
    It scares me too, that screen. I have also seen good forums being changed to Facebook/Twitter-style format.

    So why does everything have to be like , or atleast look like a bad ripoff of, Facebook/Twitter/Smartphones/Pads these days? Damn you hipsters, damn you all.

    EDIT:

    And damn you Apple with you overpriced hipster junk.
    Last edited by Treize; July 27, 2012 at 10:57 AM.
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  9. #9
    karamazovmm's Avatar スマトラ警備隊
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    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    they are still going to offer games for windows, be it origin, blizzard, steam, GOG... They wont be stupid enough to ditch the most supported operating system in games for linux, which has a game collection even smaller than OSX, which that is a feat in itself.

    Sincerely I like win 8, a lot. I have been using it since the developer preview came out, its light, there is some interesting features that are integrated in the OS apps itself, off course they could have refined more the people and messaging apps, by giving more functionality to messaging, and the touchpad controls could be more refined, I do hope that they put a better api for the scaling options in win 8

    Im actually all Beta in the microsoft side of things, win 8 + office 15 + visual studio 2012.

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  10. #10
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    XBox Live for the PC?
    Will we be paying monthly fee's for playing games online?

    They are sick enough to consider...

    I don't like the way the computer world is going, monopoly position abuse and crappy UI's to please dumb and slutty teenage girls.
    Last edited by Treize; July 27, 2012 at 12:20 PM.
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  11. #11
    Crazyeyesreaper's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    WIndows 8 performance wise fantastic, GUI atrocious, tried it dropped it made doing my 3D work and in general multi tasking a bit slower, Oh well the kiddie themed color block interface is what microsoft wishes to push and Valve is against windows 8 mostly due to Microsoft now moving toward a Walled Garden approach,

    Walled Garden approaches in general result in less hardware compatibility and thereby less choices, just look at the Windows RT the ARM version of Win 8, microsoft is cockblocking developers on a regular basis. Limiting access so that 3rd party apps end up inferior to their own offerings, Its not so much Windows 8 is a Catastrophe, its the market change in Direction Microsoft is taking starting with the OS thats the problem, Regardless Gabe has a huge barrier in the way of expressing his thoughts to others. as a Private company he doesnt need to explain anything thus he sucks at it royally lol. But regardless this is more about SteamBox and less about Windows really,

    Valve is valued more than AMD, that means the #2 CPU maker and #2 GPU maker in the world is worth less than Valve, they have paired up together, With Steam working on Linux, and if they can convince developers to switch, would allow Steambox to undercut the competition due to a FREE operating system.

    besides not really that hard to port games to Linux,

    Wii Wii U are open gl ES based

    Open GL ES can be run on Open GL 4.1 and later, which means GTX 400 500 600 series and HD 5000 6000 and 7000 series work fine,

    Android, Mac OS X, iOS, Linux, all support Open GL in some form, PS3 uses an Open GL wrapper over its proprietary API, in theory Open GL has a larger install base then Direct X, and Open GL when coded properly offers better Performance than Direct X, biggest problem Open GL faces is Hardware Drivers a GOOD driver is harder to create for Open GL than Direct X and this means Direct X is easier to support hardware wise.

    Regardless Steam offers 385 Games or thereabout for Mac OS X, its not that difficult to port them to Linux,

    Unreal Engine
    Id Tech 5
    Unigen Engine
    Source Engine
    Whatever Call of Duty is running on at this point

    all have Open GL functionality, Most Ubisoft games can run on Linux with relative ease being ported from Mac but that means

    Serious Sam
    Assassins Creed
    Ruse
    Anything Source Based
    blah blah

    all could be made to run on Linux fairly easily with some development time, the Big deterrent is Return on Investment for businesses, those that dont already support Macs would have to have support for both to make it worth while then sales would need to be high enough to offset cost.

    Regardless its nothing more than a ploy by Valve to reduce dependence on Windows, and the reason for this is because Windows in the Mobile sector is pathetically WEAK,

    in PC sales for instance PCs sell about 15-20 units for every Mac, but when you look at smartphones tablets, etc etc its a 2 to 1 ratio as time goes on, this ratio will shift ifurther making Microsoft no longer the dominate force in the Industry. At this junction bringing Linux to the party could create another option for users and one thats more profitable long term for Gabe and Valve. Because Valve is looking past the Windows platform, looking at integrating with TVs, Smartphones, Tablets, Consoles, and various Desktop OSes, Steam is no longer a PC only platform, Gabe is making a multi-platform service or is at least attempting to.
    Last edited by Crazyeyesreaper; July 27, 2012 at 01:42 PM.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    They are idiots for removing functionality from something that works already to make it more suited to a market they are never going to be successful in.

    OS X is gradually becoming more integrated with iOS, but they are separate things (even if they are completely restrictive, they are still designed for what they are used on). Not because they can't share software and compatibility, because they can and do. Because one uses a mouse and the other is touchscreen. Why Microsoft has decided it needs the same operating system for PCs and tablets, when individual ones would have worked far better I don't know. They have a market of millions for PC, tablets are something they are just trying to break into. Apple isn't even their competitor, Google is.

    I don't have any Apple things, just though it was an interesting comparison.

    "pricing for Surface for Windows 8 Pro will be on par with Ultrabook-grade laptops."
    So that's at least £800 quid for a tablet? And at the same time they will upset all the companies who normally provide hardware for their software. The RT version will be cheaper (and probably rubbish, who wants something with only micosoft store software as Crazyeyes said), but I doubt it will be as cheap as the £200 Nexus 7, which is getting excellent feedback, as well as Google and Asus finding a balance that suits them both.

    Portable devices are closed shop because of the 'app' culture that has taken over, which may work for portable devices. Of course it means people with actual computers who want full control over what they use it for will be worse off.

    The way I see it, either surface will be very good at the expense of their core market, or it will be a resounding failure like so many non-PC attempts by Microsoft, in which case everyone will be worse off.
    Last edited by Colossus; July 27, 2012 at 02:37 PM.

  13. #13
    Crazyeyesreaper's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    eitherway if Steam is a success on Linux and more games move to it Ill dual boot Windows 7 with Ubuntu linux, with Linux as the primary, I only stay on Windows now due to games as is. will be years before any progress gets made though. As Gabe said its a HEDGING bet, aka hes not willing to keep his eggs in one basket, he has the freedom and ability as a private entity to invest in new ways of bringing his content to people, so Steam Big Picture aka Steam on TVs, Steam on Linux on Mac, on Windows, im sure you can see where hes going with this Steam is to become a ubiquitious platform thats available on anything and everything not just Windows. This way should anyone company essentially cock block him he can still say you and make money.
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    Ybbon's Avatar The Way of the Buffalo
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    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    I already do dual boot for that exact reason. I changed to ubuntu 12.04 from Mint 11 the other day, made a cock-up (really should not do two things at once) and overwrote the grub so it wouldn't boot. I used my laptop to find the solution and had it fixed in 20 minutes. Somehow I just know if I'd messed up the MBR in the same way it would have been much messier. Personally, I love Linux and prefer it for most things. The only annoying thing is synching email between both - and that's only because I haven't really looked into it (with thunderbird) but I'm always playing with changing my email client for precisely this reason. I don't like Unity but that's fine, I just cinnamon instead.

  15. #15

    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    From what I saw of Windows 8 about a year ago, performance-wise, it looks to be blazing fast in terms of boot speed and read times. The part that has me worried, as well as many others I'm sure, is the new GUI layout that Microsoft has developed, which feels like a step in the wrong direction as far as accessibility is concerned. A GUI with tiles, are you kidding me? Microsoft needs to keep that relegated to its tablets and smartphones, not the PC, because I wouldn't feel comfortable having to search through however many tiles to find where I placed something, whereas with the current GUI, all it takes is a few clicks. Essentially, it's like Microsoft is partially-abandoning the GUI system that made their company what it is, going for a new system that may or may not have a lasting appeal with the masses. Chances are, it'll just be a phase before they go back to the tried-and-true GUI, but I've been known to be wrong in the past.

  16. #16
    karamazovmm's Avatar スマトラ警備隊
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    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    So do you work for MS? to have a pre alpha win 8 thats the only option.

    To have a gui with tiles, thats just how most of the OSes are running right now, be it gnome for linux, ML for OSX and win 8 for windows.

    If steam is moving to whatever platform that they see fit, good for them, I dont really care, they are still going to provide, OSX and windows support which is the thing that most users use (and dont come with me with that argument that linux should surpass OSX usage one day, they have been around for a while, and adoption rates are still low, and yes I do use linux).

    Basically I dont ing care to whatever horse that an idiot said, just because he is a product manager of whatever ing thing that is available, people is the most replaceable thing that is available.

    Im not delusional to think that windows is going to lose as the primary platform of steam for any foreseeable future, i,e. 5 year. I dont really care that steam is going to port some games for linux, doesnt matter what type of engine it runs, it matters how much money do I take from the port, and being steam those ports are free if you own the game for windows already, thus you just get the profit from the port from the buyers of actual users of linux, that dont use windows, basically not enough.

    He must be extremely high to make that kind of statement. Basically a guy betting his job on something that havent got any kind of traction on the consumer market for more than 15 years. Delusional, I dont even know how he got someone to back that idea.

    You may dont like win 8 like I do (and yes I do recognize its flaws, and there are many, many, many flaws), but get over it, win 95 is going to die at some point, it has been dying for since vista, it cant come soon enough. If you dont like the trend that is going, complaint with MS, or whatever avenue that you may find suitable, just dont go crying with whatever forum you may find available, some people that are trying to get the point across dont have the kind of patience to deal with that, as I dont have.

    Basically get a hold of reality, and get of that ing high horse.

    The very ugly forgive, but beauty is essential - Vinicius de Moraes

  17. #17

    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    I'm running the Windows 8 release candidate on a virtual machine right now and its not that bad. I just wouldn't recommend it for the computer illiterate right now.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    I'm running the Windows 8 release candidate on a virtual machine right now and its not that bad. I just wouldn't recommend it for the computer illiterate right now.
    Same here.

    Metro is proving to be a pain in the ass, but I'll figure out ways to make it work and more efficiently, I'm sure.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    I'm running the Windows 8 release candidate on a virtual machine right now and its not that bad. I just wouldn't recommend it for the computer illiterate right now.
    Which is ironic since I'm sure thats their primary market
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  20. #20
    irishron's Avatar Cura Palatii
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    Default Re: So windows 8 scared me then I felt better..

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Which is ironic since I'm sure thats their primary market
    Oh, so true. You can tell Balmer aint Gates.

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