Faction - River Zora

[Eldren]

the topic of naval combats should be its own thread. but you could do it like other games. like in Samurai warriors. you are a hero in that game, and the battle is a bunch of ships boarding each other. could make a custom settlement that looks like ships on the sea, that have rammed each other, or some thing else like that.

[Duke Serkol]

Except it would never move from that one spot. And it would be possible to occupy it.

[Eldren]

neph has made battle maps that you can only fight in if your army is in a certain region. so if not a custom settlement. maybe a map of the open sea. and ships being huge units that have the elephant style of program, that let it have multiple riders that attack. that is one way of doing it. but there may be better ways.

the army could go piggyback. and not be in the fight. besides land solders wore not know to fare so well on a ship, The movie Red Cliff, is a good example. [its beast on a true historical battle, in china] the massive army of Chu-Chu 800,000, could not attack the Armies of the South land, when they at first arrived, do to the Soldiers, not handling the voyage on ship so well, most were sea sick and weary of the travel.
we could use the same excuse for the land armies not to fight on deck. and have a ship to ship fight.

any different Ideas, counter examples or excuse that may be of help to the naval combat idea. would be helpful.

[Duke Serkol]

You're equivocating the problem: when a battle occurs at sea, it is autoresolved. No alternative is given.
Your idea of a city in the middle of the seacould have gotten around that problem, but it would have created others as said in my previous post.
This other idea? It's completely unfeaseble, unless the game is reprogrammed NOT to autoresolve naval battle and that would probably requirre assembly hacking.

[Eldren]

Ship types of note:
battle ship. or war ships: fight head on.
troop transports: carry the troops and if one is destroyed a portion of your land army is as well.
interceptors. meant to intercept troop transports before they can land.
possible other: etc, etc.

[Duke Serkol]

A nice little list. Short yet covers all the essentials.

[Eldren]

could turn the sea from sea to no travel zone. except certain units. I could not bull rush the Subrosians as Darknuts. because Neph made there land impassible until a certain time. so that could solve it with out reprogramming to much. I hope

[Duke Serkol]

You would have to divide the ocean in regions, each with its settlement. And let me remind you there's an hardcoded limit for settlements.
Also I don't think it would be possible to restrict travel across those regions to ships (or even just let those move across a region that is not the sea).

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

My option may seem completely off the wall, but it is just a prototype suggestion. Seas... how about removing seas altogether and reskinning them with land that looks like water. That land can drastically reduce the movement speed for all but Zora, River Zora, and Lanayru, because Zora, Zola, and Lanayru generals will be given an ancillary that increases movespeed on that particular terrain type (if that is possible). Then, we can work with the terrain work, as Eldren put it, "battle maps that you can only fight in if your army is in a certain region." Again, prototype idea, feel free to contribute/criticize or whatever.

[Eldren]

@ Duke last post
regions. or region. one Island for the hole or good chink of sea.
you could have what neph did for the River Zora. have a wall between the land and sea. and have bouts pop up only on the sea.
neph has recently made teleporting. so if you can tack a army out of game[signifying they are on ships] you could have then pop up where the ships land
the idea is, the sea is just land, not travel-able by most unit. only by bouts, and visa verse. but you could have some unit do both like Zora.

@ Avatar of the Ice Wolf last post

removing seas altogether and reskinning them with land that looks like water.

that's what I'm saying. but you salved some ishous i notest. the bouts troop transports, could also have an additional ancillary. that increses a few troops speed, to keep up with the fleet. but all ships could have another ancillary. that stops land armys from fight. so the piggyback idea could work.

[Duke Serkol]

I think I'll leave the objections to modding experts, this is getting way over my head.

Just one thing:

neph has recently made teleporting.

What? When did that happen??
That is great news, how does it work? Via connected warp gates?

You could even make underground passages with that.

[Eldren]

ancillary for troop transport, if one of them dies. a random portion of your Land Army, that tagging along could, auto rebel. [meaning they died in battle or floating at sea.]

you could do this with all ships, by having a [in map screen] moral drop.

[Eldren]

the River Zora teleport from their recruitment city to the nerist water way.

[Eldren]

underground passages, could be dun using that as a template, or similar proses.
neph would know better then I.

sorry for the double post. i think some people are annoyed by that. if i under stand right.

[Duke Serkol]

Uh, I figured they just spawned by the river instead of town.

[Eldren]

a crude way of doing it:
so you could have a city, that have a building that gits money back from, disbanding troops. and a building that make them Recruitable again, but they pop up at a specific site. like the River Zora do. the Recruiting time could signify travail time.
Again a vary crude way of doing it.

Edit: This proses could be refined.

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

Well, the time required to get from a to b could be a pest but teleportation sounds great to me! maybe we can get Termina or Skyworld to be a playable zone...

[Duke Serkol]

Dunno about Skyworld (shouldn't you be able to descend from and to anywhere?). I myself was thinking of the Twilight Realm and the Dark World.

[Eldren]

Dunno about Skyworld (shouldn't you be able to descend from and to anywhere?). I myself was thinking of the Twilight Realm and the Dark World.

to descend from Skyworld. you need a parachute. or a magic cloth. or well........ splat!
but also you can have a building that decreases, recruitment time. to make a teleport, or a underground tunnel. instant or one turn.

so with this idea, you can invade the Twilight Realm. he he. open sesame!

[UndyingNephalim]

Problems with Naval combat in M2:

1)There is no way to allow specific units to pass over specific terrain types like water. If this was the case flying units would be able to move over Death Mountain right about now.

2) All terrain types are currently being used and none of them can be replaced with water, not without sacrificing things like the Realm of Twilight, Death Mountain volcanism, and other types of terrain I've added in. As you might have guessed, climates/terrain has a (surprise!) strict hard coded limit.

3) The River Zora units don't actually teleport. What happens is the engine detects the "Summon River Zora" Unit in "X" Settlement, and then deletes it and spawns from a list of units as a predetermined location. As such this only works when something is created, it cannot be used to move any pre-existing units on the map from one location to another... except named characters since the game labels and keeps track of them.

4) Naval combat has been obnoxiously boring in pretty much every game I have ever played. As nice as it looks in Rome 2 I'm still sure after five minutes I'll get board of my boats taking ten minutes to inch to each other. As such even if naval combat was possible in the engine I'm not even sure if I'd want to include it.

5) As it's been pointed out, the engine is hardcoded to auto-resolve anything on water. There's no way possible to force the game into a battle map on water, not that I'm aware of anyway.