Hoplite "Turtle" Formation

[Alkaline Earth]

I propose that Hoplites get the Turtle Formation instead of the Phalanx. The Hoplite Phalanx was very much given up on at this period in time and was almost exclusively used by Phalangists, or Pikemen.

Picture of the "Turtle" Formation:



It's use is very similar to that of the Testudo formation that Cohorts can use with their Scutum shield. The "Turtle" Formation can be seen in a few movies with Hoplites like Oddyseus ( when their leaving the shore ) and Troy ( when their coming up the shore. ) The formation is mobile but fairly slow.

[ccllnply]

I propose that Hoplites get the Turtle Formation instead of the Phalanx. The Hoplite Phalanx was very much given up on at this period in time and was almost exclusively used by Phalangists, or Pikemen.

Picture of the "Turtle" Formation:



It's use is very similar to that of the Testudo formation that Cohorts can use with their Scutum shield. The "Turtle" Formation can be seen in a few movies with Hoplites like Oddyseus ( when their leaving the shore ) and Troy ( when their coming up the shore. ) The formation is mobile but fairly slow.

You say the phalanx had been given up on by this period and then claimed the "Turtle" formation was used in movies such as 300, Troy and Oddyseus. Irony anyone?

I'd much rather see the normal hoplite phalanx please

[Evalation]

Please show me where you got this info....... the phalanx was apart of greek warfare scince the classical age, the macedonians just made it better with a professional army and long pikes. Saying the greeks gave up on the phalanx is completely untrue..

[Alkaline Earth]

Please show me where you got this info....... the phalanx was apart of greek warfare scince the classical age, the macedonians just made it better with a professional army and long pikes. Saying the greeks gave up on the phalanx is completely untrue..

The Greek Hoplite Phalanx was given up by this time in favour of the Macedonian Phalangists Phalanx

[Evalation]

um the hoplite formation was deffinatly not given up on dude. Show me somewhere where it says that the greeks abandoned a formation that worked for hundreds of years before the romans came along and ill consider it.


Marines Lead the way,
Oorahh

[ccllnply]

The Greek Hoplite Phalanx was given up by this time in favour of the Macedonian Phalangists Phalanx

Considering the Greeks and Macedonians were two different peoples, I'm am also fairly skeptical

[Hobbes]

Considering the Greeks and Macedonians were two different peoples, I'm am also fairly skeptical

lol

[Boom S]

The Greek Hoplite Phalanx was given up by this time in favour of the Macedonian Phalangists Phalanx

source ?

a screen from stupid 300 as source ? please tell me you are on medication.

[Alkaline Earth]

source ?

a screen from stupid 300 as source ? please tell me you are on medication.

Late on in the hoplite era, more sophisticated tactics were developed, in particular by the Theban general Epaminondas. These tactics inspired the future king Philip II of Macedon, at the time a hostage in Thebes, in the development of new kind of infantry – the Macedonian Phalanx. Although clearly a development of the hoplite, the Macedonian phalanx was tactically more versatile, especially used in the combined arms tactics favoured by the Macedonians. These forces defeated the last major hoplite army, at the Battle of Chaeronea (338 BC), after which Athens and its allies joined the Macedonian empire.

[ccllnply]

Late on in the hoplite era, more sophisticated tactics were developed, in particular by the Theban general Epaminondas. These tactics inspired the future king Philip II of Macedon, at the time a hostage in Thebes, in the development of new kind of infantry – the Macedonian Phalanx. Although clearly a development of the hoplite, the Macedonian phalanx was tactically more versatile, especially used in the combined arms tactics favoured by the Macedonians. These forces defeated the last major hoplite army, at the Battle of Chaeronea (338 BC), after which Athens and its allies joined the Macedonian empire.

Wikipedia? Really?

Anyway, I think you've read that wrong mate. It says the Macedonians developed the Macedonian Phalanx. It doesn't even suggest that the Greek did away with their's

[Boom S]

Late on in the hoplite era, more sophisticated tactics were developed, in particular by the Theban general Epaminondas. These tactics inspired the future king Philip II of Macedon, at the time a hostage in Thebes, in the development of new kind of infantry – the Macedonian Phalanx. Although clearly a development of the hoplite, the Macedonian phalanx was tactically more versatile, especially used in the combined arms tactics favoured by the Macedonians. These forces defeated the last major hoplite army, at the Battle of Chaeronea (338 BC), after which Athens and its allies joined the Macedonian empire.

I didn't ask you how or when phalanx developed.

I asked you for a source that hoplites employed anything like the tortoise formation.

[Nikephoros Kapatsos]

Late on in the hoplite era, more sophisticated tactics were developed, in particular by the Theban general Epaminondas. These tactics inspired the future king Philip II of Macedon, at the time a hostage in Thebes, in the development of new kind of infantry – the Macedonian Phalanx. Although clearly a development of the hoplite, the Macedonian phalanx was tactically more versatile, especially used in the combined arms tactics favoured by the Macedonians. These forces defeated the last major hoplite army, at the Battle of Chaeronea (338 BC), after which Athens and its allies joined the Macedonian empire.

Thanks for copypasting a bunch of statements. Anyways how does this relate to a supposed turtle formation? Epaminondas no doubt re-developed Hoplite tactics, but in no form of a useless formation as such displayed in some flashy Holly-wood flick.

What inspired Philip II was the fact Epaminondas effectively used Cavalry and psiloi, unlike the other commanders in the day. The inspiration of Phillip II's Phalanx that would one day rule the known world for a short time was the need of a cheaper but just as, or even more effective soldier. Philip II twist was unlike the Thebans tactics of pinning enemy flanks with Cavalry and Psiloi, and a Echelon Formation of infantry were the lead unit was heavily reinforced; was that he deepened the phalanx formation to advance and pin enemies upon contact. The job of the cavalry was now to break through the enemies flank to ultimately attack the rear. The inspirations of the Sarissa and smaller shields to be wielded by Philip II troops was a mix of inspiration from Makedon's Barbaroi neighbours, but also from the Conflicts from the Greek States south of Mt.Olympus and the Peneus River. Now why would Philip II have such an soldier that we call Phalangites, but was often loosely referred to as hoplite? The reasoning for such crucial military reforms, was to ensure Makedon could enlist, equip, train, and field on the battlefield a manpower that other Hellenic States lacked. However what the kingdom of Makedon lacked was a middle class of society, and lacked the major urban centers of a rich prosperous Hellenic State.

[AnthoniusII]

The Greek Hoplite Phalanx was given up by this time in favour of the Macedonian Phalangists Phalanx

My friend do not rely your knowlege on movies.
I am not talking about 300 only but almost every movie about antiquity.
I can understand that "ancient" warfare can be a bit boring for a game but crossing the line between fiction and reality sometimes guides us to very dark paths.

Greeks (all of their tribes) from 1500BC to the finall defeat from Romans used phalanx in many versions.
Phalanx is the generic name of the tide formation the greeks used to do with short or long spears, with square or round shields, with bronze or linen armors.
Phalangites were evolution (a cheaper version) of hoplites when greeks realised that was to expensive to have hoplitic armies.
Hoplites did not need formations like turtle nore they used their swords like in 300 movie or Troy!!!
Archers and horsemen were rare in clasical era plus the plains in greece were to narrow for cavalry units to make complicated manuevres.

But your desire for such warfare could allert CA for a DLC about Meceanean era were phalanxes existed side by side with chariots and in dark ages with lonely fully armed hoplites that faught only with personal duels.

[Asgaroth]

I'd much rather see the normal hoplite phalanx please

Me also.

[Nearby]

Turtle Formation was used against cavalary or against arrows ? Its like roman testuto or anti-cavalry ?

[Lord Baal]

It looks really cool and all, but I think that formation gives you not real benefits in practice, you can't move, you are still vulnerable to missiles and I don't see really how they can affectively attack. In either case if is included then have it as an option, don't do away the regular phalanxes.

[Alkaline Earth]

It looks really cool and all, but I think that formation gives you not real benefits in practice, you can't move, you are still vulnerable to missiles and I don't see really how they can affectively attack. In either case if is included then have it as an option, don't do away the regular phalanxes.

The formation is mobile, you just cant run.

[Khannis]

You didn't just based yourself on the movie 300... You just... didn't.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[Asgaroth]

The formation is mobile, you just cant run.

Then show us a link or some proof where it was used in history.

I have never seen this formation anywhere but in that movie.

[Titus Livius Patavinus]

Why wouldn't they adopt the style that first defeated them, and then they preceded to fight in for the next how many years?