Barcalona the State.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Why cant the Catalan people have a vote on staying with Spain or having a seperate state?
The Barcelona economy is stable and would not have the debt of the rest of Spain and the UN says a people have the right to decide on their own future by a vote.
They were abused in the past and their language banned.Should they or do they even want a vote????
Discuss

[King Gambrinus]

I don't think it's the most constructive thing to do. They should've seperated years ago when Franco was finally deposed. And if the Catalans seperate from Spain so will Basque and all the other communities, leaving Castillans screwed with debt that isn't necessarily theirs...


When the going gets tough, doesn't mean you should start declaring independence.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Fo Self preservation they should do what is best for themselves and leave Castillans screwed.

[Treize]

And why wouldn't they have to take on some of the debt huhh??

[King Gambrinus]

Says Treize, the Flemish separatist (who's actually just a Dutch imperialist) who blames Wallonia for Belgium's crisis. Hypocrisy much?

[Treize]

Says Treize, the Flemish separatist (who's actually just a Dutch imperialist) who blames Wallonia for Belgium's crisis. Hypocrisy much?

Wait, what?

[King Gambrinus]

Wait, what?

You're not very consistent saying Catalunya should shoulder the blame for Spanish debt yet when it comes to Belgian debt you seem to blame Walloons a lot.

[Treize]

You're not very consistent saying Catalunya should shoulder the blame for Spanish debt yet when it comes to Belgian debt you seem to blame Walloons a lot.

I was saying that if Catalonia would split from Spain that they would not be debt free all of a sudden and that Spain would have to retain all of its debts, usually a seceding part of a country takes on a proportional part of its debts.

I would like to add that Catalonian nationalism is stupid but that Spain should decentralise further and promote local languages and cultures. As should all countries, France are you listening?

[athanaric]

I was saying that if Catalonia would split from Spain that they would not be debt free all of a sudden and that Spain would have to retain all of its debts, usually a seceding part of a country takes on a proportional part of its debts.

And having yet another petty state in Europe makes zero sense. I'm all for dissolving Belgium, as well as those useless little tax evasion holes such as Monaco, San Marino, Liechtenstein, or Andorra.

[Dr. Croccer]

You're not very consistent saying Catalunya should shoulder the blame for Spanish debt yet when it comes to Belgian debt you seem to blame Walloons a lot.

Because the Catalonians caused a lot of the debt. 'Autonomy' really just means 'getting s of money'. Catalonia has even less of an economy than the rest of Spain, and that says something. It's entirely dependent on tourism and heavy investment from the state. It's corrupt and wasteful as hell. The mayor of Barcalona has as many officials as the prime minister of Britain, IIRC. All while remaining arrogant and dismissive of the Castillians. Hardly any different from the Walloons, who rely on Flemish money while refusing to treat them as equals.

[spanish_emperor]

It's entirely dependent on tourism and heavy investment from the state.

eh what?

[athanaric]

Er, somehow Catalonia has the biggest debt of all Spanish provinces. How's secession gonna help them?

[Celsius]

Considering their local economy (import/export wise) could not withstand a seperation, it would be in their best interest just to have a good local economy in crappy national economy.

[fkizz]

Maybe Catalunia should read up on Portugal and Gibraltar history, those 2 countries always sucessfully struggled to keep independent from Castille.

[mishkin]

Catalonia and the rest of Spain have coexisted for centuries to benefit mutually. If now Catalonia was economically stronger than the rest of Spain, would be through the investment by the central state (Barcelona '92, remember?). Unfortunately, Catalonia is now so screwed like the rest of the country, largely because of their own managers and their own corrupt.
Catalonia was oppressed by the central state for centuries, like many other regions / nations of Spain (i live in one of those nations). Luckily, is not like that anymore, so that the victimhood would be forgotten.(I can vote my regional nationalist party, speak my language wherever, etc)
The right of self-determination does not exist. (a case?)

[Lуra]

No, it would be suicide. Not everybody would vouch for it either.
I would much prefer a Federalized Spanish state.

~Lyra

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Where is ETA nowadays have they gone away?

[Lуra]

Dude, ETA is in the Basque country and they haven't really been doing anything as of late. Their party looks like a yogurt brand even... pathetic terrorists.

~Lyra

[mishkin]

They're party looks like a yogurt brand even... pathetic terrorists.

~Lyra

[fkizz]

Catalonia read up on Portugal, and maybe even Gibraltar, to have independence you need to give up on nice things and be ready for periods of blood sweat and tears.
However I think Catalonia is already in bad waters despite being part of Castille.. Basically Catalonia has to prove the world they're serious and not just a childish rant of being independent. Resorting to terrorism like the basque already proved it doesn't work. Anyway history will continue flowing and I doubt Catalonia will get independence, it will just bow down to Castille aka Spain like it did since 1492 and receive the according benefits.

Anyway being Portuguese, Spain is a very odd country to me, Portugal has appeared to be very united so far, it confuses me that a country has so many independence movements, from Gaelicia to Basque to Cataluna.