"Propaganda" - Made in North Korea

[al Rashid]

Recently I came upon an interesting video online. A documentary of sorts that attempts to explain the reasons and effects of propaganda. Ironically this video was (allegedly) made in a totalitarian country: North Korea.

While first watching this documentary, I honestly expected a biased all-out attack on Western ideals and culture. And I was right. However, there are significant points made in the video that are hard to ignore, and I do recommend watching it. At the same time, I cannot help but be puzzled; here is a nation that is the epitome of repression exposing the flaws of others, while paying no attention to its own. Not only that, but the style and presentation of the video itself does not strike me as the kind you would expect from an isolated nation like NK.

I came to the personal conclusion that this video was not made in North Korea, but by someone who simply wanted to show an example of the "bad guy's point of view" and why they might have these views. The result is, in my opinion, disturbingly accurate. I urge people to see it for themselves, as I would like to know what others think of the origin of this video, or the even the arguments made by the video itself.

[Morbius Sire]

It is a good video so far, very interesting. However, this should be in the political academy instead of the political mudpit, since it concerns a whole concept instead of a current event.

Well, I've watched a bit of it, and I'll leave only my initial response in this post (will finish the video later, however. )

Their points of consumerism and propaganda is based on group dynamics. A relatively clueless population can be easier to fit in and respect the laws set by a specific government. Yeah, there will be half-truths and misleading article, mostly because they are actually easier than actually introducing a whole truth or a perceptive from both sides.
It is easier this way to maintain a country/nation without any over-complications.

While this is a very questionable source, I find the content of the quote actually has merit to it.

All propaganda must be so popular and on such an intellectual level, that even the most stupid of those toward whom it is directed will understand it... Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way around, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.

[source]

Beauty, and in extension life, is in the eyes of the beholder. Any propaganda/'truth' can be believed if it is told properly.

[NikeBG]

Hah, funny, just recently I found and posted (in another forum) one of my favourite BBC documentaries - "The century of the self" - which also deals with public relations/propaganda, but from another angle. Your one seems interesting as well, even if it also seems to be a propaganda piece itself.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Look at the UK they could not bear to see the Korean flag at the Olympics so they put up South Koreas instead of the Norths beside Northern athletes.You will not break Juche Spirit comrades.

[Sarissofoi]

I am surprised because it is really good movie.
Confused now.

[RuleBritannia]

It is very good, but North Korea's always puzzled me. If they put this sort of material out to their own populace, outlining how the West uses such propaganda and is such an evil force, how come the public looks completely differently at blatant North Korean propaganda? If the West is so evil and full of lies, I don't see how they come to believe that, for example, Jong-Il could control the weather based on his mood, and other such nonsense.

[Diamat]

It is very good, but North Korea's always puzzled me. If they put this sort of material out to their own populace, outlining how the West uses such propaganda and is such an evil force, how come the public looks completely differently at blatant North Korean propaganda? If the West is so evil and full of lies, I don't see how they come to believe that, for example, Jong-Il could control the weather based on his mood, and other such nonsense.

The answer is simple: unlike us, Communists openly admit to propaganda. They openly admit that it is a tool to conform people to the party line, etc. However, they think that unlike capitalist propaganda, theirs is for a good cause, i.e., that it is to bring about a better life for the people once they all hold correct ideas. Communists want to openly eliminate all remnants of the Bourgeoise, including Bourgeois thinking, supplanting it with progressive thinking.

As regards the video, I had a quick glance and will watch it in full tonight. What I can tell you from what I have seen is that I doubt that it was produced by North Korea. Why? Certain words, such as 여자 were written the South Korean way, not the North Korean way, where it is spelled as 녀자. Also, the font was atypical for North Korea. Furthermore, this does not follow typical North Korean propaganda standards. They don‘t need a foreign interpreter because they have their own. They are very capable of doing the translation themselves and would most likely prefer to do so, in order to ensure it meeting the official standards.

What I think this is: a video produced by pro-DPRK South Koreans. What they are doing is highly illegal by the standards of the National Security Law (in South Korea you can‘t even access the North Korean news). It would make sense why their faces are blanked out and why they gave it to a foreigner, so that no one could trace the video to them.

I will share this video with my colleagues in the field and see what they think.

[RuleBritannia]

The answer is simple: unlike us, Communists openly admit to propaganda. They openly admit that it is a tool to conform people to the party line, etc. However, they think that unlike capitalist propaganda, theirs is for a good cause, i.e., that it is to bring about a better life for the people once they all hold correct ideas. Communists want to openly eliminate all remnants of the Bourgeoise, including Bourgeois thinking, supplanting it with progressive thinking.

As regards the video, I had a quick glance and will watch it in full tonight. What I can tell you from what I have seen is that I doubt that it was produced by North Korea. Why? Certain words, such as 여자 were written the South Korean way, not the North Korean way, where it is spelled as 녀자. Also, the font was atypical for North Korea. Furthermore, this does not follow typical North Korean propaganda standards. They don‘t need a foreign interpreter because they have their own. They are very capable of doing the translation themselves and would most likely prefer to do so, in order to ensure it meeting the official standards.

What I think this is: a video produced by pro-DPRK South Koreans. What they are doing is highly illegal by the standards of the National Security Law (in South Korea you can‘t even access the North Korean news). It would make sense why their faces are blanked out and why they gave it to a foreigner, so that no one could trace the video to them.

I will share this video with my colleagues in the field and see what they think.

A thorough explanation, though the part on the Communism involvement is where I question you. North Korea doesn't practice what was 'defined' as Communism, the equal distribution of wealth among all classes and the owning of the means of production by the working class, but instead it follows a Stratocratic Autocracy, with Kim Jong-Il and his family holding all power almost as idols among the people with the Army as a governing force.

The development of propaganda in those countries that practiced Communism de jure is radically different from what we see in North Korea. Revolutionary propaganda portrayed the Bolsheviks, most notably Lenin, as heroes that were trumping a corrupt dictatorship emplaced over them, but they did not portray them as beyond human. Soviet WWII-era propaganda closely copied Western and Eastern propaganda. Really, all sides used similar propaganda to one another, then post-WWII it consisted of propaganda depicting the sheer militar strength of the Soviet Union, but again, it did not show the Soviet leadership or even military as superhuman. PR China, Vietnam, and Cuba, among others, could also be referenced for their propaganda, albeit PR China practiced a somewhat similar system to DPRK's cult of personality with its herocizing of Chairman Mao.

However, all of this aside, the propaganda of North Korea still borders on ridicule. Il-Sung and Jong-Il both were portrayed as superhuman beings capable of controlling the weather and manipulating the 'evil West', showing the West as an impoverished or greedy group that wanted to destroy its own people. However, North Korea's government at the same time forcefully took away land, forced food removals, overspent on its military, denied any free information to its people, and kept up a forced loyalty, real or faux, for its leaders, no matter who they were. At the same time, however, it was evidenced that DPRK's leadership partook in 'Western indulgences', such as technology and extravagance that their propaganda warned against, and with North Korea's active participation in Olympics events, it became obvious to some people of North Korea that the outside world wasn't as horrible as they were told. It makes sense that most people in North Korea are aware of this ridiculousness (hence the Chinese issue of dealing with North Korean runaways) but are forced to follow it, but what now strikes me as strange about your theory is DPRK loyalism within South Korea. South Korea isn't incredibly wealthy, no, but it's far better off than the North, so how would anyone in their right minds construct propaganda favoring the North?

[Diamat]

A thorough explanation, though the part on the Communism involvement is where I question you. North Korea doesn't practice what was 'defined' as Communism, the equal distribution of wealth among all classes and the owning of the means of production by the working class, but instead it follows a Stratocratic Autocracy, with Kim Jong-Il and his family holding all power almost as idols among the people with the Army as a governing force.

The development of propaganda in those countries that practiced Communism de jure is radically different from what we see in North Korea. Revolutionary propaganda portrayed the Bolsheviks, most notably Lenin, as heroes that were trumping a corrupt dictatorship emplaced over them, but they did not portray them as beyond human. Soviet WWII-era propaganda closely copied Western and Eastern propaganda. Really, all sides used similar propaganda to one another, then post-WWII it consisted of propaganda depicting the sheer militar strength of the Soviet Union, but again, it did not show the Soviet leadership or even military as superhuman. PR China, Vietnam, and Cuba, among others, could also be referenced for their propaganda, albeit PR China practiced a somewhat similar system to DPRK's cult of personality with its herocizing of Chairman Mao.

However, all of this aside, the propaganda of North Korea still borders on ridicule. Il-Sung and Jong-Il both were portrayed as superhuman beings capable of controlling the weather and manipulating the 'evil West', showing the West as an impoverished or greedy group that wanted to destroy its own people. However, North Korea's government at the same time forcefully took away land, forced food removals, overspent on its military, denied any free information to its people, and kept up a forced loyalty, real or faux, for its leaders, no matter who they were. At the same time, however, it was evidenced that DPRK's leadership partook in 'Western indulgences', such as technology and extravagance that their propaganda warned against, and with North Korea's active participation in Olympics events, it became obvious to some people of North Korea that the outside world wasn't as horrible as they were told. It makes sense that most people in North Korea are aware of this ridiculousness (hence the Chinese issue of dealing with North Korean runaways) but are forced to follow it, but what now strikes me as strange about your theory is DPRK loyalism within South Korea. South Korea isn't incredibly wealthy, no, but it's far better off than the North, so how would anyone in their right minds construct propaganda favoring the North?

You are actually not questioning me on anything. I have no disagreement with your statement that North Korea's propaganda is unique. Nevertheless, this does not detract from my former statement that North Korea openly admits to propaganda. After all, North Korea used to be a more traditionally Communist country. The structure of its state, the Party, etc., are very reminiscent of the Soviet Union, particularly under Stalin. I call North Korea "Communist" only for convenience's sake. It is certainly an arguable point, which I really did not want to get into, as it is irrelevant to this thread. The point is, North Korea, just like traditional Communist countries, openly admits to propaganda. To them, it does not have the negative connotations that it has in the West.

Second, you ask, why would anyone in SK support NK? I ask, why would anyone in the United States support NK? There are always deviants. There are always those odd people; in any country. Plus, you have to consider that Koreans, both in the South and North, are very nationalistic. They consider themselves part of one minjok (Volk), tied by a common ancestry. Juche is a very potent word for both South- and North Koreans. It rings well with them because it puts the independence of Korea first and foremost. The colonial experience has a lot to do with those feelings. Indeed, during the minjung movement in South Korea, the masses of protesters championed North Korea's Juche idea, i.e., that we common Koreans are the subjects of history who have been oppressed by the exploiting classes and the imperialist nations. Naturally, I can easily imagine these ultra-pro-DPRK South Koreans. And as I have watched more and more of the video, it becomes evermore clear that this video is South Korean in origin.

[NikeBG]

Maybe they don't really believe those things, but are just forced (actively or passively) to agree with them?

[DAVIDE]

He says the truth in many parts

[NikeBG]

And twists it in many parts as well. Though, yes, it's a spot on for quite a number of things.

[Heinz Guderian]

its an hour and a half, but i'm getting a good vibe from you guys. I came back from work like an hour ago and i'm gonna go to bed in about two hours cos i have work tomorrow. So knowing what you know now, should i watch this? I dont have a day off until monday, but i have to take the family out to Thomas Land in Drayton Manor Park or some shiz. I dont want to go, but my wife is just gonna ***** if i dont.

[s.rwitt]

its an hour and a half, but i'm getting a good vibe from you guys. I came back from work like an hour ago and i'm gonna go to bed in about two hours cos i have work tomorrow. So knowing what you know now, should i watch this? I dont have a day off until monday, but i have to take the family out to Thomas Land in Drayton Manor Park or some shiz. I dont want to go, but my wife is just gonna ***** if i dont.

Monday. Drayton Manor Park. Tall, Aryan man with neatly trimmed mustache, equally Aryan wife. Possibly a small blond haired boy in lederhosen, a German Shepard named Blondi II, or both.

Noted.

[Poach]

Moved from Political Mudpit to Political Academy.

[Sarissofoi]

I notice something familiar in this movie.
When they talk about North Korea leaders they use very ceremonial words.
It is like specific procedure. Why it is familiar?
In (not that)old historic books in my country(written when communist rule) historians often write on beginning and end of the book some connection to the Marxism Leninism.
Some anecdote tell that censors only read the beginning and the end of the book so it can slide.
Actually most of historic works from this period is of high value if the topic was before the XVII century.

[Taran.]

There is a lot wrong in the western society. Altough people in the west enjoy a higher standard of living than those in the DPRK, the west is just as much ruled by dictators as the DPRK is. The people with money are in power, and they will do everything to keep it that way. Democracy is a lie.

Very interesting video, thanks for finding it

[Nikitn]

There is a lot wrong in the western society. Altough people in the west enjoy a higher standard of living than those in the DPRK, the west is just as much ruled by dictators as the DPRK is. The people with money are in power, and they will do everything to keep it that way. Democracy is a lie.

Very interesting video, thanks for finding it

Sure democracy is a quite bad system, as the masses are easily manipulated by the powerful, but obviously it is 100 times better than a North-Korean style cleptocracy.


Anyway I find it interesting (along with a few other posters in this thread) that many people take it for granted that western countries are the best. http://planetthoughts.org/UserFiles/...ness-Index.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_happiness

Material wealth isn't everything.

[Col. Tartleton]

I made 3 minutes before rage. I'll push on for the greater good.

35 minute mark... Now I'm pissed.

Now it's 51 minutes.

I'm so confused. It's like they're arguing for Libertarianism and Autocracy at the same time...

It's so irritating. I want to agree with them in one sentence and then I'm vehemently opposed to the next.

McArthur was right. We should have nuked the bastards.

This needs a counter narrative badly.

If I had the power of their God-Emperor I could turn North Korea into the most prosperous free country in Asia... Oh well, they can keep their fantasy land.

Not even because I'm smart or something, all I would need is to do the exact opposite of what they're doing and it would work.

[Axeman]

It makes a very good case based on half truths, but it is a very good example of propoganda.

I personally started laughing alot when they referenced historical information, like how they warned the USA of Pearl Harbor against the "Dirty Japanese" who should be "cleaned from the Earth", and yet we are monsters for using nuclear weapons against them. Ok I get that you have to appeal to old xenophobia but at least be consistent about it. Also just like the youtube description describes it is doubtful that this was intended for domestic audiences within the DPRK.