Zector's Map redesign (Paul's cont.)

[Zectorman]

Now i'm no where near as skilled as Paul was when it came to this, but I thought it would be wrong not to finish what he started. Anyone who is willing to help me in this, is more than welcome. I know many of you applauded Paul's efforts on the redesign, so any map additions or province ideas would help me. I'm going to post my first crude attempt here in a few minutes, bear with me on the not so clean image.

World Map

[Mjolnr839]

Neph did say he was implementing almost all of Paul's map regions he showed, so i think the better idea (no offence meant at all), would be us trying to get Paul to come back and show the rest of his maps.

[Zectorman]

Neph did say he was implementing almost all of Paul's map regions he showed, so i think the better idea (no offence meant at all), would be us trying to get Paul to come back and show the rest of his maps.

I have been trying too, believe me. I have messaged him constantly, but he said and i quote "This isn't about not having a faction added, it's about the way I was mistreated by people on this forum for having an opinion, and how some of those I thought were decent people turned on me without even reading my posts properly. Regardless of how much is being added, it is down to their attitude that has caused me to stop work on it. People who privately agreed with what I had said turned on me, and I'm not hanging around somewhere where people who supposedly have my back turn on me. Only you didn't turn on me, which I'm grateful for, but I can't bring myself to work anymore on stuff for this mod."

[UndyingNephalim]

I have been trying too, believe me. I have messaged him constantly, but he said and i quote "This isn't about not having a faction added, it's about the way I was mistreated by people on this forum for having an opinion, and how some of those I thought were decent people turned on me without even reading my posts properly. Regardless of how much is being added, it is down to their attitude that has caused me to stop work on it. People who privately agreed with what I had said turned on me, and I'm not hanging around somewhere where people who supposedly have my back turn on me. Only you didn't turn on me, which I'm grateful for, but I can't bring myself to work anymore on stuff for this mod."

Not even going to bother with that. If he's going to be that immature and unappreciative of the things I have included, then I'm just not even going to give credit. This is the third or forth time this has happened when I did not like an idea of his. I did not like the Ocean King idea and there were other things I wanted to keep, sorry. Simple as that.

I'll just keep what I have on the map and add regions where people think they are needed.

lake Hylia would be a perfect spot for it, with all the sttlements surronding the lake have ports and being able to trade with each other. no actual naval units would be able to be produced in the rivers and lakes, the ports would exist soley for trade.

Kind of like the idea of more towns around the lake and all of them having ports.

[Mattwensley]

At the very least it can't hurt to throw some ideas around, but I think as a ground rule, we do not discuss what happened with Paul. People had differing opinions, and we should leave it there, rather than go any further into this.

[Zectorman]

At the very least it can't hurt to throw some ideas around, but I think as a ground rule, we do not discuss what happened with Paul. People had differing opinions, and we should leave it there, rather than go any further into this.

Agreed, that is why this is a new forum, fresh and ready to continue this great redesign.

[Mjolnr839]

At the very least it can't hurt to throw some ideas around, but I think as a ground rule, we do not discuss what happened with Paul. People had differing opinions, and we should leave it there, rather than go any further into this.

i agree with this. the past is in the past.

now, Ocean King or not, i still think most of Paul's islands, and the coastline that goes with them should be in the game if for no other reason then it would provide alot of ocean trade to help the econamy that desperatly needs a boost as it stands now.

i would also suggest that we have some big rivers with ports and trade ships ala the Anduin in Third Age, and the lake and river near Rhun. lake Hylia would be a perfect spot for it, with all the sttlements surronding the lake have ports and being able to trade with each other. no actual naval units would be able to be produced in the rivers and lakes, the ports would exist soley for trade.

[Zectorman]

i agree with this. the past is in the past.

now, Ocean King or not, i still think most of Paul's islands, and the coastline that goes with them should be in the game if for no other reason then it would provide alot of ocean trade to help the econamy that desperatly needs a boost as it stands now.

i would also suggest that we have some big rivers with ports and trade ships ala the Anduin in Third Age, and the lake and river near Rhun. lake Hylia would be a perfect spot for it, with all the sttlements surronding the lake have ports and being able to trade with each other. no actual naval units would be able to be produced in the rivers and lakes, the ports would exist soley for trade.

Same here, The islands are important because that add even more strategic flavor to the game. Money and trade for the Moblins, Ordona, or Lizalfos can give any the upper hand in the campaign!

[Mattwensley]

I too would like a distinctive sea element, rather than the token coastlines. Maybe make Lake Hylia bigger, more like a small sea, and have tributary rivers from the Goron mountains, Zora's domain into it, and smaller rivers flowing into Gerudo valley, the Great Plains (connecting with the sea) the Forests etc? Make Lyke Hylia kind of the hub of the world map, but again, no ships along rivers! But he who controls the lake can ship wounded men back to their lands, and fresh men into enemy territory in only a couple turns...

[Zectorman]

With this reimagining, I think Termina in its whole should come through not just Ikana canyon.

1. East Hyrule field - already on the map

2. Ordonafawn - Renamed from Ft. Ordonafawn
Moved to New Territory (from previous map redesign)

3. Bodona- New Territory
named after Mayor Bo from Twilight Princess

4. Ordon Springs- New Territory
Named after the Ordon Woods area in TWP

5. Great Bay- New Territory
named after the region in MM. Majora worshiping zora?

6. Termina- New Territory
Named after fields outside Clock Town in MM

7. Ordermina- New Territory
A blend of Ordona and Termina. The boundary between the parallel realms.

8. Great Bridge - New Territory
Named after the bridge in Twilight princess

9. Mesu Ordona- Re positioned Territory

10. Nal Ordona- Re positioned Territory

11. Coro- New Territory
named after character in Twilight Princess.

12. Snow Head- Renamed Territory
Renamed Ft. Eldara, since Snowhead was a giant goron inhabited mountain, maybe goron rebels? Majora worshiping rebels?

13. Ikana- Re positioned Territory
In MM Ikana was more in the East than south.

14. Gon-Sora- New Territory
Keeping up with the Goron rebel, different Goron naming technique. This would be where the Goron town in MM would be.

15. Stone Tower Keep- Renamed/Re positioned
A rebuilt Fortress of old Ikana.

16. Rovana- New Territory
Named after Twinrova. Idea came from the shop and tour given by the sisters in MM

17. Woodfall- New Territory
Named after the temple in MM, a swamp/forest area. Maybe infested with Majora worshiping deku?

18. Clock Town- New Territory
In the center of the madness of Termina, Clock town. A large town, filled with all sorts of Majora worshiping rebels.

19. Romani- New Territory
Named after the ranch in MM

[Mattwensley]

Cool, good changes. A question - does this mean that there will be a region called Termina before 'Termina' officially returns? Or will it be a M2TW America-esque cut off region, along with more of 'Termina'?

And would it be awkward to have 'before' pictures as well? Would save me having to jump onto H:TW to see what's going on in terms of individual regions, but isn't vital.

[IAmNotShazam]

Paul vs Neph round 9001 happened and Paul's being a drama queen?

It's also Wednesday, what else is new.

[Mjolnr839]

nice job Zector, you need to give yourself more credit.


the Great Bridge just reminded me, the Gerudo should have a "Bridge Fort" settlement near the entrance to Hyrule to represent the broken bridge the carpenters rebuilt.

and maybe have a "Carpenters Guild" that could show up for Hyrule to give a discount to constructing buildings across the kingdom.

which while off topic, any other characters/orginizations that could show up as Guilds for the various factions?

edit: Termina could show up as a differernt continet "Aztec Style" across the ocean. that would really require a faction to spawn overtheir with them to provdide a challenge, and we don't have the room. maybe sctipted rebels, or just rebels in general.

[Zectorman]

Paul vs Neph round 9001 happened and Paul's being a drama queen?

It's also Wednesday, what else is new.

Lets not bring this up again, this is a new forum topic, lets leave that behind us. My only goal is to make this mod bigger and better, for all our benefit. Whatever Neph decides to take from this, i hope i am only helping him make this mod.

nice job Zector, you need to give yourself more credit.


the Great Bridge just reminded me, the Gerudo should have a "Bridge Fort" settlement near the entrance to Hyrule to represent the broken bridge the carpenters rebuilt.

and maybe have a "Carpenters Guild" that could show up for Hyrule to give a discount to constructing buildings across the kingdom.

which while off topic, any other characters/orginizations that could show up as Guilds for the various factions?

Thank you, it was hard trying to partition off the area correctly. If anything i want more terrain down there to add all the great bay areas from MM. So many opportunities involving the Great bay, but ill just have to settle for one big region called Great Bay.

[PaulH]

Zectorman, you have done a really good job on that so far. If I was to give you a couple of pointers, I'd suggest combining 19+20 into a single region, and combining 15+16 because at the moment they are a tad too small. Also, and it's entirely up to you, but the place where you have region 18 is where I had a region named after Kasuto from Zelda 2.

On the northern part of my map, I made a few changes which you might want to take into account, but you do not need to:

1) I split Rutolan and Airu province into 3, moving the position of Rutolan closer to Airu and placing a rebel settlement where Rutolan was. This was to provide a small buffer between the Gohma and Lanayru.
2) I split Domain Prime into two territories, but never got around to naming the new rebel one that was next to Kakariko.
3) I split Gor Goronon in two, adding in Crenel west of it's position, which would have been a Mountain Minish settlement.
4) I turned Gor Unduga rebel, and took parts of Gor Unuga, Gor Galonga and Seshi to create a new Goron held territory. The reason for Gor Unduga being rebel, was to give more land for the Gorons and Zora to battle for control over. The new Goron settlement went unnamed.
5) I split Rutoval and Nayrunis each into two territories, inserting a rebel territory between them and Domain Prime, and one next to Mothulus and Sand Crab Cove. Neither of these were given names by the time I did them, as I was only drawing out the layout whilst pondering names for the Moblin areas.

You do not need to use these ideas, but if they help you out then that's awesome, you've got talent, keep using it Zectorman.


To everyone else who decides to say I'm being sassy, dramatic, immature, all I can say is that all I did was leave quietly. I made no grand fuss about leaving, but I needed time out, so I private messaged Zectorman to thank him for accurately reading what I had written in another thread, and Holy Pilgrim to close the threads whilst I cooled down. I felt people had not properly read what I had been writing, which became clear to me when people seemed to be posting as if I was being demanding, when all I had done was give an opinion on Heroes and Balance, and attempt to justify my position whilst saying a number of times how it is just my own opinion. The message shown above was sent to Zectorman after numerous private messages, and was written on my iPhone whilst busy at work, so I likely did not say what I said as well as I could have done. But I do apologise if my comments had sounded demanding to others, but when I read them back, I haven't seen any.

I am very proud of the contributions I made to this mod, through unit design and faction suggestion, through to my map which Neph has been kind enough to mostly incorporate, which is what I am most proud of. All I can say is that this isn't about not getting my own way, merely needing some time out after something that, to use an odd phrase I heard recently, "Got on my Goat". If you guys feel the need to continue with saying about my immaturity or dramatic qualities, then feel free, as I'm not going to hold a grudge.

Zectorman, if you need any more help, just ask over private message and I'll try to help.


Edit: I apologise for hijacking the thread for what I just wrote, but after noticing a number of comments I felt I should give a little explanation of what was going on. I just hope this isn't like pouring gasoline on a fire, but instead like pouring dirt over one.

[Zectorman]

I have redone the map a little now. Thank you Paul for the advice, as always it will be invaluable to helping make the map grander. I have taken into account some of your suggestion, and have used some. Although I think ill stick with the Termina names considering the direction I had in mind when redesigning it. I did combine those territories as you suggested though, and those other things i will take note of when i try my hand at the other unused parts of the map.

[Duke Serkol]

I made no grand fuss about leaving, but I needed time out, so I private messaged Zectorman to thank him for accurately reading what I had written in another thread, and Holy Pilgrim to close the threads

The latter bit is the one that struck me as... uncalled for should we say? It's not unreasonable that you could not feel like continuing your work since you didn't like the way the mod was turning out, but asking for the threads to be locked (especially the geography one) seemed like it could only serve to stop others from continuing the discussion for no real reason (other than retaliation).

However,

whilst I cooled down.

If the reason you asked for the lock was simply that you just wanted to take a short break, then come back and resume from where you left (without the thread going ahead and leaving you behind), I suppose I could understand that.
But next time, you should tell everybody why you're having one of your threads locked. As you can see, it can lead to misunderstandings.

[PaulH]

Well, the reason I asked for the lock is because of two things really, one being that I wasn't sure if I was going to keep away from working on it for a few days or a few weeks, and the second being that although conversations would continue, with the thread open people are left expecting to see an update, which I felt was unfair to everyone. Actually, a third reason is also that if I didn't come back for a few weeks, I didn't want to shift through a lot of comments to find roughly where I was before, which I suppose is somewhat selfish.

I didn't want to make a thread or post about it purely because I didn't want to cause an argument or debate or whatnot. I merely wanted to fade into the background, until I felt ready to spring back into action when the time came, if it came.

[Mattwensley]

@IAmNotShazam Like I said mate, let's keep it civil. If Paul ever decides to give us another shot, he shouldn't have to read a load of overly harsh comments.

@Mjolnir839 That sounds good too - what if they spawned with an Ikana nation already set up, instead of Ikana spawning a few turns in as a nomadic army? It would stop the blocking that usually occurs in Ikana canyon that wipes out the entire faction. It would also make Ikana's weaknesses - a lack of population growth, little income and expensive units more evident if they start off with economy, rather than making a small effort to start one, and then petering out.

[Mjolnr839]

@IAmNotShazam Like I said mate, let's keep it civil. If Paul ever decides to give us another shot, he shouldn't have to read a load of overly harsh comments.

@Mjolnir839 That sounds good too - what if they spawned with an Ikana nation already set up, instead of Ikana spawning a few turns in as a nomadic army? It would stop the blocking that usually occurs in Ikana canyon that wipes out the entire faction

i agree, Ikana does usually get wiped out in a few turns by Ordona. spawning as a fully fledged empire across the sea, would be a perfect oppurtunity for the naval invasion idea that Neph likes.