Dwarves- crazy warlords

[Bowmaster]

Okay, so as you all know at the start of the game dwarwes are at war with OotMM and OoG. Few turns later, they jump into Dale's game against Rhun. And if the player wont stop them, they'll start war with the Elves. That makes the game a bit hard for Elves, orcs and Rhun, since the Dwarwes will steamroll you to the ground. Shouldn't the Dwarwen war craziness be lowered?

[Mikail Mengsk]

we shall rule the world

[dannyalex]

kill them all!

[coldzero]

Okay, so as you all know at the start of the game dwarwes are at war with OotMM and OoG. Few turns later, they jump into Dale's game against Rhun. And if the player wont stop them, they'll start war with the Elves. That makes the game a bit hard for Elves, orcs and Rhun, since the Dwarwes will steamroll you to the ground. Shouldn't the Dwarwen war craziness be lowered?

I totally agree with you. They'r a bit to aggressive

[Holy Harry]

It's the fact that I've never seen them do badly, they're always atleast solid, and the only provinces they lose are ones they've just taken and western ones to rebellion. They always end up wiping out either Rhun or one of the Orc factions.

[Khay]

The problem is that their stacks are too good when autoresolving, making them particulalry overpowered in IA vs IA situations where everything is about raw numbers and stats. And at some point, when they start lacking "legitimate" targets for their expansion they end up aggressing High Elves. Nerfing the units directly is not really an option, the impact on the battles we play would be too important. I unfortunately lack the modding knowledge to suggest a technically not too complicated way to tune them down when autoresolving. I guess someone smarter than me could come up with some script to achieve that.

[Holy Harry]

I think the easy solution is to increase the cost and upkeep of Dwarven units, and lower them for the orc factions. Should make it a bit more balanced, as I've never seen OoG or OotMM still doing well by the later stages of the game, and Dwarves are always doing well whatever the stage.

[RuleBritannia]

I think it's made fairly obvious the Dwarves and Elves don't like one another too much. Maybe it'd make sense that long after Sauron was defeated, if he was defeated, that they'd maybe go to war in the campaign, but it'd take so long for this to happen and a war happening in the middle of the War of the Ring would make no sense at all.

I think the easy solution is to increase the cost and upkeep of Dwarven units, and lower them for the orc factions. Should make it a bit more balanced, as I've never seen OoG or OotMM still doing well by the later stages of the game, and Dwarves are always doing well whatever the stage.

I agree. I've always thought Orc upkeep prices were ridiculously high considering they aren't very good units stats-wise. Their units are given barely enough crap to fight in canon, so how do they cost more than some typical Man regiments do?

[smoesville]

The main reason i believe is the way they're treated by the engine in auto resolve. This can be changed afaik but i'm not sure by how much. I think as a faction they are well balanced so i don't think that should be changed but there has to be some way to curb their enthusiasm. One thing that might help a little is to start them allied with their neighbours (both of the elves, Eriador, Dale) which would stop the crazy wars at least in the beginning. Would it help to reduce the rate at which they produce troops? I mean they had a resurgence in the FA but were declining even then and eventually faded away. They aren't a young, vigorous race so they shouldn't expand quite so much but they should hold doggedly on to what they start with.

[Muffer Nl]

WE WANT CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAZYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Holy Pilgrim]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[ElvenKind]

Well, the Dwarves are that good cause the warriors of other nations during the fight against the Dwarves ALWAYS GO FOR THE HEAD of their opponent, and as we can see in THP`s post, dwarf`s height interferes in enemy`s plans.

[Mhaedros]

I think the only proper solution would be to lower the numbers of their units and maybe make their stats a tiny bit higher. This would not only solve the AI vs. AI steamrolling, but also make the dwarven faction more correct to lore when the player encounters dwarves

[Bowmaster]

There's two possible ways to make them less agressive:

1.Maybe an alliance between Eriador and Dwarvesyes::. Then you give some settlements to Eriador to separate Dwarven and High Elven lands. And to stop war against the Silvan Elves, Dale could get some settlements to separate Dwarven and Silvan Elven lands.

2. Dwarves unit stats could be lowered and the upkeep higher. And maybe the recruitment time could be raised with 1-3 turns.

Or maybe both of these.

PS: It is not an option to make Dwarves have alliances with the Elves, since the dwarves and elves hate each other. It wouldn't be lore accurate, not even lore friendly.

[smoesville]

PS: It is not an option to make Dwarves have alliances with the Elves, since the dwarves and elves hate each other. It wouldn't be lore accurate, not even lore friendly.

There is distrust between some of the elves and dwarves but between the kin of Thorin and the High Elves there doesn't seem to be any bad blood. They do not hate each other (you may be thinking of Warhammer) though the elves of the woods, especially Lorien would likely not ally with them though in that case they seem to have little or no contact with any save the elves of Mirkwood. Also the main problem is that the blue mountains and the grey havens border one another. Another thing that might help is if the blue mountains weren't in dwarven hands but rather that of rebels.

[Pyres Δt Varanasi]

There is distrust between some of the elves and dwarves but between the kin of Thorin and the High Elves there doesn't seem to be any bad blood. They do not hate each other (you may be thinking of Warhammer) though the elves of the woods, especially Lorien would likely not ally with them though in that case they seem to have little or no contact with any save the elves of Mirkwood. Also the main problem is that the blue mountains and the grey havens border one another. Another thing that might help is if the blue mountains weren't in dwarven hands but rather that of rebels.

Could be a nice idea since most of the time they loose it to rebellion.

[Bowmaster]

There is distrust between some of the elves and dwarves but between the kin of Thorin and the High Elves there doesn't seem to be any bad blood. They do not hate each other (you may be thinking of Warhammer) though the elves of the woods, especially Lorien would likely not ally with them though in that case they seem to have little or no contact with any save the elves of Mirkwood. Also the main problem is that the blue mountains and the grey havens border one another. Another thing that might help is if the blue mountains weren't in dwarven hands but rather that of rebels.

If you've read the Hobbit, you know that their hearts are filled with hate for the elves. The high elves barely let them enter Rivendell, Thranduil's folk escaped whenewer the dwarves showed their face in their party, and later he captured them, and the elves joined in the siege of the Lonely Mountain...

BotFA may improved their relationship, but you need more than one battle made together to forget the hatred that has lasted hundreds of year's.

And I could mention: the dwarves and elves are contrast's to each other: the dwarves like mines and rock, the elves like trees and sunshine, the dwarves are stubborn people, the elves are careful, the dwarves trust in raw power, to elves it's about skill (see what Legolas and Gimli have done)...

[Mhaedros]

It wouldn't be lore accurate, not even lore friendly

Neither would lowering their stats...

[Mhaedros]

It wouldn't be lore accurate, not even lore friendly

Neither would lowering their stats...

[Mikail Mengsk]

Well, technically Thorin's people still hold a grudge against Thranduil's people because of their imprisonment during the events of "The Hobbit".

Dwarves unit numbers should be lowered, but stats should be raised (same for elves). The autoresolve issue, though, won't be solved. The only way would be to lower their stats, but that's absurd: Dwarves are some of the best warriors in middle earth and they have the best equipment. Making them uber-expensive would be too much, maybe raising their recruitment time by one could be an idea (should be done with elves too).