Hypaspists (mostly comment, part question)

[Perdiccas]

Hi,

I am playing as Makedon and have tried to use my Hypaspists as a decisive factor in battles... usually holding them back and sending them in the rear or flank of an engaged enemy at the most crucial point. Much to my disappointment, they aren't the killing machines I envisioned. They usually kill only a bit more than they lose. Same with my Agrianes (spelling).

I love the look and the history of those units, but I'm less than impressed with them. And again, I send them in on units pinned by my phalanx.

I've found the thracian peltasts are much more lethal and have greater survivability fulfilling the same roles.

[Silver Legionary]

Are you having them use their .225 lethality longswords?
That might be the issue.
They kill SO fast when they use those.

[Perdiccas]

Is that their default or do you have to use alternate attack..... i think thats my mistake, they usually have their spears out.

thanks

[Silver Legionary]

You have to hit Alt and right-click.
That could do it.
They should start killing other units REALLY fast with those.

[The Kybrothilian]

The Hypastists are an hoplite unit, and thus when using their primary weapon they're more suited to defensive task (guarding the flank of your army) but since they have longswords as secondary weapon, they have offensive quality as well (if you just order them to use the secondary)

[tarem]

The Hypastists are an hoplite unit, and thus when using their primary weapon they're more suited to defensive task (guarding the flank of your army) but since they have longswords as secondary weapon, they have offensive quality as well (if you just order them to use the secondary)

Agreed. The way i use them is usually on the right flank of my phalanxes, and in stead of charging and flanking i usually pin enemy units with them, especially would be flanking cavalry. For gap exploits i use the thearspidai (macedonian peltasts), that hang in the back for the hypaspists to create the gap (just remember to have them on guard mode). Move the peltasts through the gap/s and throw the javelins in the backs of the engaged troops, then auto-charge them. This is all on the right flank. On the left i use the agrainian and ilyrian spearmen. Do note that because the enemies have their shields in the left hand, your left is their right, so they have no missile defense on the exposed flank. You can use the thureoporoi and agrainian flexibility to launch missiles in the flanks and backs of the enemy. To make this easier pin them down first with a unit of thureoporoi (like you did with the hypaspists) or classical hoplites. Works like a charm every time, unless the enemy has strong cavalry flanks, in which case you need to get rid of those first. By the way, a combination of hypaspists and macedonian peltasts cuts through bodyguards like through butter.

[Casual Tactician]

As Entropy Judge said many 'elite' units in EB are not that cost-effective. So when you wan't to play EB totally cost-effective. it's often best to use 'medium' units with high lethality and/or ap-ability and/or (fairly) good armour etc... Unless you have money coming out of our ears - then you can use elite-only armies (if you like).

But I like composing my armies fairly historical - using a couple of elites, a bulk of mediums plus a few low-tier units (even in the late game). With my FL and FH getting the highest percentage of eliltes, and some elites being reserved for the FL (and perhaps FH) only to use - as eg. Hypaspistai, or Pto. Royal Guards and the like.

As for the Hypaspistai: If they use their spears in melee, you'll have to use some mirco-management now and then to make them use their 0.225-lethality swords. RMC for primary (sword) and Alt-RMC for seconary (spear) IIRC.
Also Hypaspistai are a superb unit for assaulting enemy walls, as they have vey high armour, level-4-shields (very good on walls, as attacks come from the front*), great morale and hight lethality swords.

*[shield] : Unit's shield value, taken into account against both ranged and melee attacks, but only when they come from the front or the left side. Against missiles from the front it offers twice the protection it's value suggests. Measures the blocking capabilities of a unit's shield. Max value is 31 and everything higher will be considered 31. - from The Complete EDU Guide

[Entropy Judge]

I am playing as Makedon and have tried to use my Hypaspists as a decisive factor in battles...

Generally speaking, 'elite' units aren't much worth the price. In terms of raw killing power, Hypaspists aren't much better than, for example, Triballi Infantry - both have .225 Longswords, and the Hypaspists' Attack is only 2 points higher. The Hyps do have significantly better Defense, higher Morale, and higher Mass, but they're twice as expensive.

Same with my Agrianes (spelling).

Agrianians? They actually are really awesome, what with having an Axe (.165 Lethality plus AP), good Defense, and being fairly inexpensive.

I've found the thracian peltasts are much more lethal and have greater survivability fulfilling the same roles.

That's because Thraikian Peltasts are somewhat ridiculous. Their weapon is .26 Lethality and AP. That's the same strength as the Bastarnae/Drapanai weapon, which is 2-handed. In terms of attack, they are almost as good at hitting as the Agrianians, and when they do hit, they're much more likely to get a kill. Defensively, they're only a bit worse than the Agrianians, and actually have better Armour - combined with the fact that they're killing much more quickly, it's no wonder they outperform Agrianians, and compared with Spear-armed Hypaspists, they're still going to be doing at least as well.

[Perdiccas]

thanks for the info everyone.

i try to at least partially role play and be somewhat historically accurate with my armies... so i like having hypaspists and agrianians in my army. and i've used local troops like triballi, samnites etc... in those regions.

but boy, do i loveeeeeeee those thracians, takes some self discipline to limit the amount i use lol

[Antiokhos Euergetes]

Nice post tarem, spoken like a true Hellenic general ..elephants make good cavalry screens.
REP to you.