Diplomacy

**Evalation** · July 23, 2012, 03:23 AM

I think everyone who has played rtw 1 knows that diplomacy really sucked lol

Example. Im Rome, ive been fighting the Greeks for a long time and now im being attacked on 3 diff fronts, i need to declare peace with greece so i can focus my troops on more important things. I sue for peace they accept next turn were back at war agian.

Also trying to get a vassle....

Example. Gaul only has 1 city left and 4 unit cards, i dont want them to be wiped out i want them to fight for me. They have no chance agianst my 2 full stacks at their gates but they cannot be bargained with.
I know some of you would say "Their Gauls! they will never surrender to Rome.. well people. if you were outnumbered 4000 to around 300 wouldnt you raise an eyebrow and think "Maybe i dont want to watch my city burn and my men slaughtered then have the population exterminated and end the Gaulic legacy forever" They talked about more human behavior, so i think this should at least be talked about.

also i think the demand surrender option should be available like in Empire Total War.

Post your thoughts or spam or trollage.
Eva

**Rikx** · July 23, 2012, 03:30 AM

Yeah the surrender option from Napoleon was pretty handy. It allowed you to leave a general in the city and try to defend it to pull off a heroic victory if outnumbered, and if he failed then he would be allowed to surrender. Hope they bring it back for Rome. But at least the diplomacy has seen a lot of improvements since RTW, and the vassal system has worked pretty good for me in Shogun. Many times have I forced a nation to be my vassal, and then it ends up saving me or helping me push back Oda ashigaru hellstacks

. So with all the AI programmers they have now and all the improvements that have gone into the system already it will be a much better system in Rome II than RTW.

**wolfbane751** · July 23, 2012, 03:38 AM

yeah the rome AI was quite stupid i am playing vanilla as seleucids and i have an egyptian diplomat asking every turn for me to become his protectorate lol and iv dealt pretty big defeats to like 5 full stacks of his troops and taken one of his cities and he keeps asking me to be his protectorate lol

**stradar1** · July 23, 2012, 03:38 AM

I honestly hope they really go into depth with Diplomacy To be quite honest Diplomacy has really sucked for a very loooong time.........It really felt empty. Every game diplomacy was bland and really wasnt mind grabbing I found my self not even trying to use diplomacy and just killing everyone I really didnt care for it.

**Evalation** · July 23, 2012, 03:57 AM

Im glad some people agree. I also agree that diplomacy has become better over the past few tw games, but i never got to play shogun 2 because i have too much stuff on my comp as, but it seems from videos ive seen that the vassle system is better in that game.

And i agree stradar i eventually stopped recruiting diplomats and just went on the world domination path like you.

Another thing id like to bring up is AI superfactions that spring up over time when playing tw games. In Empire i diddnt notice it as much as in midieval 2 or rome 1. cuz i know how much it sucks playing half the game fighting one faction. So i hope that the team works with the AI's programin a little to limit the possibilities of superfactions but i think they'll work on that as most mods for Rome 1 tried to tackle it.

**stradar1** · July 23, 2012, 04:03 AM

Originally Posted by Evalation

Im glad some people agree. I also agree that diplomacy has become better over the past few tw games, but i never got to play shogun 2 because i have too much stuff on my comp as, but it seems from videos ive seen that the vassle system is better in that game.

And i agree stradar i eventually stopped recruiting diplomats and just went on the world domination path like you.

Another thing id like to bring up is AI superfactions that spring up over time when playing tw games. In Empire i diddnt notice it as much as in midieval 2 or rome 1. cuz i know how much it sucks playing half the game fighting one faction. So i hope that the team works with the AI's programin a little to limit the possibilities of superfactions but i think they'll work on that as most mods for Rome 1 tried to tackle it.

I will say a way to fix that problem is make smaller factions stronger able to assemble bigger armys I mean even smaller nations didnt just have 3000 men they at least had around 10000 or more......Id like to see the other factions have feelings like actully feel the weight of the loss of 20000 men after a long campaign and ask for peace or even a long lasting allince!! and actully stick with u from battle to battle. Id allso like to see the Ai actully amass more then one stack and not blindly send 1 stack at a time at ur 4 stack army just suicidel idiocy!!!

**RandarKal** · July 23, 2012, 04:04 AM

I was quite pleased with Shogun 2's diplomacy, though I hope Rome2 will be better, and more importantly, see a return of province trading as well as "demand make peace with country X", both having some historical basis in the era.

As for Superfactions, Med2 and Rome had Milan and Egypt IIRC, Empire was less common, but usually Maratha would get there in my experience

**Evalation** · July 23, 2012, 04:16 AM

you think they could put the acropolis in Athens? I know the Rs2.5 team did

would be sick to do fighting atop the acropolis or am i the only one imagining athenians fighting romans around a burning parthenon in a last effort to save their sacred city

Also i think the fall of a major city like that should not just cause economic crisis but also impact the moral of the faction who once controlled it.

Adding to the human behavior thing agian for example, Rome just captured Alexandria from the Ptolymiac empire and now they are in a depression and can no longer field a big army or support its citizens. So now they have no choice but to submit to Roman rule. But i dont think the impact should happen over one turn by no means it should take at least 5-6 years for it to hit (dont know how many turns that will be exactly.)

hope my ideas get looked at by CA

**Dowie** · July 23, 2012, 05:03 AM

I too do hope for much better diplomacy and more options given to us. it has got better in the later games but it did suck in empire.

an option that i was hoping for especially in the later games is the ability to form a coalition against a particular faction. not sure if this happened in roman times but would be good to see some factions (even as enemies) joining together to beat a common enemy.

another thing that i would like to see is the ability to loan troops or lend out troops. not sure how it would work and if it was done but still would be a good feature.

On the Superfactions from med/Rome (by this i mean some random factions actually growing not just milan-med2 or egypt-rome) i actually miss them a little because in empire when i played it nothing seemed to happen or the same thing would happen every game.

**Evalation** · July 23, 2012, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by Dowie

I too do hope for much better diplomacy and more options given to us. it has got better in the later games but it did suck in empire.

an option that i was hoping for especially in the later games is the ability to form a coalition against a particular faction. not sure if this happened in roman times but would be good to see some factions (even as enemies) joining together to beat a common enemy.

another thing that i would like to see is the ability to loan troops or lend out troops. not sure how it would work and if it was done but still would be a good feature.

On the Superfactions from med/Rome (by this i mean some random factions actually growing not just milan-med2 or egypt-rome) i actually miss them a little because in empire when i played it nothing seemed to happen or the same thing would happen every game.

Firstly i love the idea of the different factions coming together to face an invader that threatens everyone not just one faction. But i dont understand what you mean by loaning out troops, what i think you mean is lending soldiers to a faction to help them fight agianst another faction. Is that pretty much right? if so how would it work in your mind?

**Dowie** · July 23, 2012, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Evalation

Firstly i love the idea of the different factions coming together to face an invader that threatens everyone not just one faction. But i dont understand what you mean by loaning out troops, what i think you mean is lending soldiers to a faction to help them fight agianst another faction. Is that pretty much right? if so how would it work in your mind?

aha thanks. i know we can get alliances but that seems more long term and so the coalition idea is more of a short term thing that i thought would be good to have.

yes that is what mean by the loaning. the way i see it is that say you are not in a war and are just building up economy for while but you have a army well not doing anything and you can see that your allies are being pummeled. the idea is that you can either gift them your troops (ie not get em back) or loan them to be used by the other factions armies. essentially a way of fighting without being in a war.

it could tie with diplomacy on how they use them so it would be good for both sides as you are helping but if they just use the soldiers as say cannon fodder and the units get killed then it would strain the diplomatic side. again it could have negative effects on the faction you are helpings enemies possibly escalating you to a war. Spitballing here

i haven't really thought into it too much with regards to who would pay upkeep or details like that. it was just furthering the coalition sort of idea.

**Lord Dakier** · July 23, 2012, 06:22 AM

Could work like the crusade option. You equip a general with an army press the button and shazam he's now your protectorates property till you desire him back

**Zanjia98** · July 23, 2012, 06:29 AM

I think that diplomacy should be deeper. Like when you give a peace treaty, you can specify the details like: how long it will last, what are your conditions, and what your enemies condition are. You should also be able to demand lets say, the guy who beat you a few times so you can get your revenge.

**Greve Af Göteborg** · July 23, 2012, 07:48 AM

I have been pleasantly surprised by the diplomacy in Shogun 2. In my Tokugawa campaign I tried to threaten the Takeda to become my vassal, they refused. But then when I planted an army outside their capital and besieged it, they were willing to accept.
And alliances are actually easy to maintain (except after the realm divide). But I would have liked to see an option to force someone to make peace with another faction.

**Lord Dakier** · July 23, 2012, 11:50 AM

If we're adding these thousands of tribes then the games gonna become far too messy. I don't miund 2-3 tribes in Briton that we can interact with.

**Evalation** · July 23, 2012, 09:50 PM

No no, i meant there were hundreds of different tribes on Britain in reality, Id like to see maybe one faction on Britain along with a bunch of independent rebel barbarian tribes, like naked fanatics, the Iceni, the seal tribe in scotland,

All im saying is that Conqureing britain should be difficult and take time instead of just marching through with one army and wiping everything out.