No clasic era Hoplites please.

[AnthoniusII]

In RTW the game had some serius inaccuracies.
1st: The "Egyptian" faction that looked like the armies of Ramses the Great!
2nd: The existance of clasic type hoplites in the greek/hellenistic army rosters!
CA please no more Spartans with the red tunic and the famous helmets and shields.
No more hoplites at all!
Last real hoplites extinged after the Dareius' defeat in Issus!
So please....
I can understand that some "common" parts for hellenistic rosters save time and money. I can understand that "hoplites" sell...
But please no more...
If you do not want to pay "rights" to authors that can provide accurate info about the hellenistic armies in Greece and the entire hellenistic world then do not hesitade to take a look in some wonderfull mods that fans of your games have created the last 10 years and provide all the necessary knowlege and visual preferences for accurate armies.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Rome II is not Rome I ported to warscape engine.

[Kaap]

Rome II is not Rome I ported to warscape engine.

I'm quite amazed reading a lot of people making complaints about R:TW without them even taking into consideration the amount of experience CA gained with the Warscape engine and last 3 releases.

[Timefool]

They would be out of place but managing phalangite armies was always difficult in Rome. Adding hoplites would make the game unrealistic, but at some point you have to draw a line on what is acceptable and what is not. Portraying the Ptolemies as a faction thousands of year out of date is wrong, but including units that were used only a century ago isn't a big deal.

[Jack Lusted]

Hoplites had not disappeared from greek armies at the start date of the game. The transition to macedonian style phalanx armies was not instant and took time, Sparta not transitioning until around 220 bc. Other Greek city states took longer.

[ray243]

Hoplites had not disappeared from greek armies at the start date of the game. The transition to macedonian style phalanx armies was not instant and took time, Sparta not transitioning until around 220 bc. Other Greek city states took longer.

How will the Hoplites carry their spear? Will they be carrying the spears overhand or underhand?

[Breoghan]

Hoplites had not disappeared from greek armies at the start date of the game. The transition to macedonian style phalanx armies was not instant and took time, Sparta not transitioning until around 220 bc. Other Greek city states took longer.

I agree with you, but the gear of these late hoplites was hellenistic (except the sarissa). I hope they will not wear a corinthian classic helmet like in Rome I ...

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Hoplites had not disappeared from greek armies at the start date of the game. The transition to macedonian style phalanx armies was not instant and took time, Sparta not transitioning until around 220 bc. Other Greek city states took longer.

Indeed, the reform was not instant, but the hoplites were mainly abolished in favor of more flexible and better armed soldiers, such as the Thyreophoroi ('Thyreos' = the typical Celt shield) and later, the Thorakitai. The poor states of Aetolia, Achaea and Sparta, used such kind of units and not your typical classical hoplite phalanx with the 'hoplon' shield.

[Khannis]

Hoplites had not disappeared from greek armies at the start date of the game. The transition to macedonian style phalanx armies was not instant and took time, Sparta not transitioning until around 220 bc. Other Greek city states took longer.

Finally someone. Thank you.

[Jack Lusted]

Thracian, phrygian, attic and pilos style helmets will be the most common ones worn.

[athanaric]

Thracian, phrygian, attic and pilos style helmets will be the most common ones worn.

That's good to hear

[Breoghan]

WOW!!! GREAT NEWS!! thank you so much!!

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

Thracian, phrygian, attic and pilos style helmets will be the most common ones worn.

So no corinthian helmet, oh well still going to buy it

[AnthoniusII]

Hoplites had not disappeared from greek armies at the start date of the game. The transition to macedonian style phalanx armies was not instant and took time, Sparta not transitioning until around 220 bc. Other Greek city states took longer.

My friend i am afraid you misjudge the shallow big round metal shields elephant escorts or politikoi (horsemen) had with hoplon!
Spartan armies had changed right after Alexander III's death and i do not think that Rome II starts right after that date.
Even in Syracuse or south Italy clasic hoplites had extinged because of the worst finansial terms that era had comparing to Hellenic golden Era!
Macedonian Hypaspistae (Gr: Υπασπισταί) also replaced the clasic Hoplon shield with the biger version of metal round pelta that the small version was the sandard ond of phalangitae.
The big round metal pelta looks same with hoplon from a distance but in NO case those shields are the same.
After all the workshops that manufactured Hoplons were also extinged right after the Alexander's campaign start.
Unless someone could assume that the shields of parsian Kardakes would be re-used!!
But a point that we must take a good care is that Alexander in his last 3 months of his life reformed the entire army.
Only few of his reforms existed in the Hellenistic armies and surely hoplons were not incluted in the finall equipment.
Hoplon could no be used by horsemen but the big round metal pelta could.
Also remember that "hoplites" as warriors did not exist even as word in the armies of late hellenistic armies.
The word "aspis" does not describe Hoplon as hoplon is just one kind of aspis!
Argyraspidae or other units with similar name that used big round shields did not use hoplon!
Hoplon was an extremely expensive shield the same time big metal pelta could be manufactured easily in lowest cost.
South Greeks (when North Greeks with Phillip II invaded south) were in a huge finansial crisis.
That is why in the last apearence of hoplites those warriors used no thorax (breast plate) but only hoplon and sword/spear.
That is why several thousands of those guys joined Persians as mercenaries.
South Italy and Sicily Greeks were much richer that south Greece ones but still had already bigan several army reforms the did not include hoplites.
Pyrus found no hoplites in Taras but he found other kind of warriors.
South Italy and sicily Greeks had already replaced the "citizen" soldiers (hoplites) with proffesional ones (mercenaries).
Even when Achaea tried to recruit "native" soldiers to increase the number of its soldiers they used either phalanx formations or for most of th esoldier thyraeoi shields (those shields that looked like the Gaulish ones).
So...concusion.
No hoplons, no corinthian style hoplitic helmets too...
Greeks were in decline and they made their armies cheaper that in the past.

[Jack Lusted]

My friend i am afraid you misjudge the shallow big round metal shields elephant escorts or politikoi (horsemen) had with hoplon!
Spartan armies had changed right after Alexander III's death and i do not think that Rome II starts right after that date.
Even in Syracuse or south Italy clasic hoplites had extinged because of the worst finansial terms that era had comparing to Hellenic golden Era!
Macedonian Hypaspistae (Gr: Υπασπισταί) also replaced the clasic Hoplon shield with the biger version of metal round pelta that the small version was the sandard ond of phalangitae.
The big round metal pelta looks same with hoplon from a distance but in NO case those shields are the same.
After all the workshops that manufactured Hoplons were also extinged right after the Alexander's campaign start.
Unless someone could assume that the shields of parsian Kardakes would be re-used!!
But a point that we must take a good care is that Alexander in his last 3 months of his life reformed the entire army.
Only few of his reforms existed in the Hellenistic armies and surely hoplons were not incluted in the finall equipment.
Hoplon could no be used by horsemen but the big round metal pelta could.
Also remember that "hoplites" as warriors did not exist even as word in the armies of late hellenistic armies.
The word "aspis" does not describe Hoplon as hoplon is just one kind of aspis!
Argyraspidae or other units with similar name that used big round shields did not use hoplon!
Hoplon was an extremely expensive shield the same time big metal pelta could be manufactured easily in lowest cost.
South Greeks (when North Greeks with Phillip II invaded south) were in a huge finansial crisis.
That is why in the last apearence of hoplites those warriors used no thorax (breast plate) but only hoplon and sword/spear.
That is why several thousands of those guys joined Persians as mercenaries.
South Italy and Sicily Greeks were much richer that south Greece ones but still had already bigan several army reforms the did not include hoplites.
Pyrus found no hoplites in Taras but he found other kind of warriors.
South Italy and sicily Greeks had already replaced the "citizen" soldiers (hoplites) with proffesional ones (mercenaries).
Even when Achaea tried to recruit "native" soldiers to increase the number of its soldiers they used either phalanx formations or for most of th esoldier thyraeoi shields (those shields that looked like the Gaulish ones).
So...concusion.
No hoplons, no corinthian style hoplitic helmets too...
Greeks were in decline and they made their armies cheaper that in the past.

The Spartan army did not use macedonian pike style units until the reforms of Cleomenes III.

Hoplite style units will be in the game, and named as hoplites because it is an easily recognisable name for the type of soldiers they are. Most will still be armed with large bronze shields as not all Greek forces transitioned instantly to the macedonian style.

[Grimbold]

Now that would actually be a bummer. I like my phalanx's flanks to be guarded by strong hoplite units

[AnthoniusII]

The Spartan army did not use macedonian pike style units until the reforms of Cleomenes III.

Hoplite style units will be in the game, and named as hoplites because it is an easily recognisable name for the type of soldiers they are. Most will still be armed with large bronze shields as not all Greek forces transitioned instantly to the macedonian style.

Corect...But when you read Hellenic history please read the details.
Who were those that maned Cleomenes Phalanxes?
Why?
Why Cleomenes did NOT use hoplites?
Where Spartan hoplites were?
How many hoplites did exist?
How big the spartan army was when Cleomenes freed slaves to create his new spartan army?
You see as Thoukidides teaches history is a number of facts that no one can ignore.
Cleomenes had only 600-800 citizens that could be soldiers (hoplites if you like) when in the past Sparta had 10 moras of 800 hoplites each.
Cleomenes did not have the workshops to manufacture new hoplons nore had the time to train his army to hoplitic warfare.
That means that before Cleomenes and after two major earthquakes in two centuries, Spartan army simply did not exist.
Sparta had no threats while Alexander was alive simply because there was a panellinian (entire greeks) peace treaty in favor of Alexander's major campaign.
After Alexander's death only Macedonians had armies in both south and north and that is why Gauls plundered easily north and central greece before stoped in Delphoi!
So even after Alexander's death Sparta had no need for army for a short time period simply because all the rest greek states in the area did not have armies as well!
Remember that 1st south greek armies re apeared with equipment that came as gifts from hellenistic states inorder to make new allies.

Now that would actually be a bummer. I like my phalanx's flanks to be guarded by strong hoplite units

That was the task of Thyraephoroi
But Hellenistic rulers did not have the stradegic or tactic abillity of Alexander and prefaired monolithic phalanx formations of 16000 men when Phillip II and Alexabder prefaired
intipentent phalanx taxeis of 1500 men (6x252).
That was the main reason why Romans finally found the way to smash hellenistic armies.
The "units" combination that Phillip II and Alexander had created simply disapeared!

[Austrian Cuirassier]

Thracian, phrygian, attic and pilos style helmets will be the most common ones worn.

Good to have some light shed on this particular fact. Jack will there still be Corinthian helmets? Atleast for Sparta and the other Greek polises and leagues? They were rapidly going out of use by that time, however were still rather common among elite and more senior members of the Spartan army, including among their Kings.

[Maleventum]

At that era the importance of the hoplite warfare was in decline in favour of the peltasts and light infantry , also the thureos shield often replaced the old style round shield (aspis)

[daelin4]

The mainland Greeks should start with hoplites and hoplite-style units, but as the game progresses can either inevitably upgrade to the Macedonian style, or retain the original style, either by game choice, by random, or whatever. They wouldn't insist on maintaining shorter spears and heavier armour when circumstances dictate that these require some changes. Those that did were defeated and absorbed (re all of them).

Remember, we're playing a game that starts at a historical period, we can't just have the game progress to historically predictable intervals, otherwise you're not really in control of much. And a game where you're hardly in control of what you're trying to play isn't very fun. Especially when you're supposed to be in control of how things turn out.

You can even have residual hoplites like spawned garrisoned militia units in Greek cities.