Secularism in the United Kingdom (and general)

[Hakomar]

I'd like to firstly say that I am extremely tired and I am about to go off to bed, so if this the grammar and spelling is atrocious, or what I am writing ridiculous, a mess or incomprehensible, do forgive me. I will tidy it up tomorrow afternoon when I am next available.

I'd like to say that I have mixed views on British Secularism - I find that we British generally tolerate each other of different faiths, and also that most British people favour secular society and that religion has no major impact on our lives. But I would also question the true separation of church and state, but I also feel it is nitpicking in some regards. Take for example the unelected bishops in the House of Lords - their purpose I believe is to provide moral guidance, but they come from a religious organisation that does not ordain women as bishops and is officially against homosexuality. In today's secular society, can they be regarded as providing moral guidance, and besides being a bishop does not necessarily entail morality.

In the United Kingdom, all schools are legally required to perform an act of daily worship - my school sings hymns on Mondays and Fridays and prays every day in assembly. Our headmaster often incorporates strong Christian doctrine into his speeches every day. One can opt out of this.

Britain is not theocratic (or is it, the head of state is the head of the Church of England), but British society is certainly secular. However, Sayeeda Warsi visited the Pope and warned of 'militant secularism' being a danger to Europe and that Europe needs to admit and be comfortable in its Christianity. David Cameron said "We are a Christian country and we should not be afraid to say so" and "the Bible has helped to give Britain a set of values and morals which make Britain what it is today". However, he also says "Let me be clear: I am not in any way saying that to have another faith - or no faith - is somehow wrong."

I would ask what are your thoughts on secularism in the United Kingdom, and in general, and if you have anything to add or criticise.

[Denny Crane!]

I'd like to firstly say that I am extremely tired and I am about to go off to bed, so if this the grammar and spelling is atrocious, or what I am writing ridiculous, a mess or incomprehensible, do forgive me. I will tidy it up tomorrow afternoon when I am next available.

I'd like to say that I have mixed views on British Secularism - I find that we British generally tolerate each other of different faiths, and also that most British people favour secular society and that religion has no major impact on our lives. But I would also question the true separation of church and state, but I also feel it is nitpicking in some regards. Take for example the unelected bishops in the House of Lords - their purpose I believe is to provide moral guidance, but they come from a religious organisation that does not ordain women as bishops and is officially against homosexuality. In today's secular society, can they be regarded as providing moral guidance, and besides being a bishop does not necessarily entail morality.

In the United Kingdom, all schools are legally required to perform an act of daily worship - my school sings hymns on Mondays and Fridays and prays every day in assembly. Our headmaster often incorporates strong Christian doctrine into his speeches every day. One can opt out of this.

Britain is not theocratic (or is it, the head of state is the head of the Church of England), but British society is certainly secular. However, Sayeeda Warsi visited the Pope and warned of 'militant secularism' being a danger to Europe and that Europe needs to admit and be comfortable in its Christianity. David Cameron said "We are a Christian country and we should not be afraid to say so" and "the Bible has helped to give Britain a set of values and morals which make Britain what it is today". However, he also says "Let me be clear: I am not in any way saying that to have another faith - or no faith - is somehow wrong."

I would ask what are your thoughts on secularism in the United Kingdom, and in general, and if you have anything to add or criticise.

Say whut? Really?

[Hakomar]

Indeed, it's true. However, I think around two thirds of all schools do not actually follow the rules - but it is still in place. It was put in place in 1910 I think, and has been updated in the 1940s and 1994. http://www.education.gov.uk/a0064979/collective-worship

[Vizsla]

UK is a special case. The state religion is so close to secularism it rarely causes offence. It’s quite useful for added pomp and circumstance in great national events, such as the royal wedding.
I am at my most hostile when the Bishops insist on having a say in political issues that don’t have anything to do with religion: like welfare policy.
Politicians, like DC, professing some kind of airy fairy none too specific religiosity is more about them trying to sound like nice people, than it is about religion.
We’re nothing like the Americans with all that pent up religious anger imposing itself on their politics.
I would say our traditional tolerance/apathy towards religion is currently being abused by another faith. If there are problems with religion in the future that’s where it will start.

[removeduser_487563287433]

The UK is both a theoretically and practically non-secular state. The definition of secularism is;

"Secularism is the principle of separation between government institutions and the persons mandated to represent the State from religious institutions and religious dignitaries."

In this, we completely fail to be a secular state. Our Head of State is also the head of our state religion. Bishops are guaranteed seats in the upper house of our legislature. Various religious practices must still be observed in schools.

It's disgusting.

[Stavroforos]

I don't think the UK is alone in this, the other European monarchies which have their basis in militant Protestantism have kept many theocratic elements in the state as well.

If I recall, didn't Sweden recently move to remove the official status of the state religion?

[Hakomar]

Indeed. What also worries me is Sayeed Warsi, essentially the unelected co-chairman of the Conservative Party who visited the Pope were they both agreed that militant secularism is undermining society's values essentially.

[Cesarz]

Indeed. What also worries me is Sayeed Warsi, essentially the unelected co-chairman of the Conservative Party who visited the Pope were they both agreed that militant secularism is undermining society's values essentially.

If she means militant as in, aggressive, violent, etc. Then I agree with her. Otherwise she's insane.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Yeah, Warsi is mental.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17021831

[King Gambrinus]

Yeah, Warsi is mental.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17021831

She represents exactly what is wrong with the British political system. She didn't even win a seat and Cameron gave her a role in the Cabinet. Embarrassing.

[removeduser_487563287433]

She represents exactly what is wrong with the British political system. She didn't even win a seat and Cameron gave her a role in the Cabinet. Embarrassing.

That's hardly unique to Britain. Keep in mind that the entire American cabinet is unelected. We're actually a lot more democratic than many.

[Treize]

I can't say that it's a good thing on paper but on a day to day basis it is not really an issue.

That being said I am glad to live in a secular state.

[Dr. Croccer]

I don't mind it to be honest. It's mostly harmless anyway.

Honestly, I'd prefer it over our secularism. It's rather refreshing to see Cameron talk about certain fundamental values whilst not dismissing other cultures. Way beter than the 'we have no values' multicultural bollocks over here. Hell, I wouldn't even mind having clergy in the upper house, it's not like the politicians that are currently sitting in it are any less morally archaic.

[Copperknickers II]

In the United Kingdom, all schools are legally required to perform an act of daily worship - my school sings hymns on Mondays and Fridays and prays every day in assembly. Our headmaster often incorporates strong Christian doctrine into his speeches every day. One can opt out of this.

What? If that is actually still a legal requirement, it is a relic, alongside with the ban on football in public places from the 16th century, and the permission of residents of Berwick-upon-Tweed to own a crossbow for the purposes of shooting Scottish people who try to invade. I have been to three schools and have known people at 10 or 20 in England and Scotland, and to my knowledge not one of them has daily acts of worship, not even Catholic schools. In fact most public high schools in my area don't even have assemblies let alone religious ones. My old school had assemblies biweekly in a church, but that was only because our assembly hall isn't big enough to fit the whole school.

[Hakomar]

What? If that is actually still a legal requirement, it is a relic, alongside with the ban on football in public places from the 16th century, and the permission of residents of Berwick-upon-Tweed to own a crossbow for the purposes of shooting Scottish people who try to invade. I have been to three schools and have known people at 10 or 20 in England and Scotland, and to my knowledge not one of them has daily acts of worship, not even Catholic schools. In fact most public high schools in my area don't even have assemblies let alone religious ones. My old school had assemblies biweekly in a church, but that was only because our assembly hall isn't big enough to fit the whole school.

I suppose you've had a different experience to me. I've been to two Schools in London, one in Suffolk, and four in Essex and each and every single one incorporated Christian hymns, prayers and themes in assemblies. I don't mean vague wishy washy themes either, I mean straight forward stories taken from the Bible such as Doubting Thomas to say that faith in Jesus is important, etc. I suppose it is quite varied in the U.K., and my experience is an anomaly, as around 2/3rds of all schools do not follow this law.

[Copperknickers II]

I suppose you've had a different experience to me. I've been to two Schools in London, one in Suffolk, and four in Essex and each and every single one incorporated Christian hymns, prayers and themes in assemblies. I don't mean vague wishy washy themes either, I mean straight forward stories taken from the Bible such as Doubting Thomas to say that faith in Jesus is important, etc. I suppose it is quite varied in the U.K., and my experience is an anomaly, as around 2/3rds of all schools do not follow this law.

I didn't say there weren't hymns and prayers in most schools, just not every day. Christianity is a part of our national culture, I know that the head teacher of my old school was not a Christian, but continued to give religious-themed speeches simply because that was the school's tradition.

[Stavroforos]

I didn't say there weren't hymns and prayers in most schools, just not every day. Christianity is a part of our national culture, I know that the head teacher of my old school was not a Christian, but continued to give religious-themed speeches simply because that was the school's tradition.

Aye, such archaic leftovers are also a part of Greek schooling unfortunately.

[Savoyard]

In today's secular society, can they be regarded as providing moral guidance, and besides being a bishop does not necessarily entail morality.

Considering that being a bishop doesn't harbor nearly as much political power as they did in the Middle Ages, you can actually assume that they are generally moral folk.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Considering that being a bishop doesn't harbor nearly as much political power as they did in the Middle Ages, you can actually assume that they are generally moral folk.

What? Has the child abuse scandal passed you by?

[Savoyard]

What? Has the child abuse scandal passed you by?

Bishops don't generally have congregations, Priests do (AFAIK, I'm not Catholic).