wtf is that building rushing all about?

[-de3p-]

for real, i like this game, but only in battle list... matchmade battles are just so damn annoying... its all about who is first at some buildings, you actually nearly have to take some crap units just to get so some building. who at ca did have this wonderful idea? man is this meant to be a stragety game, or a game about "who is hiding first in his house"? absolutly nonsense and s me up from when i begun playing this game (since release). you cant even think about some tactis, just rush and hope you are first at the building. and then the countdown when someone has all buildings on the map? wtf... i actually want to play with tactics but this forces you to take rush builds... not even an option to turn it off. that really pissed me off about that mp which i liked when i played battle list... oh yea, i have to play matchmade battles know because i joined a clan... superb.

cuz of this crap im losing all the time cuz skirmish units are just nonsense.

cant imagine how ppl can like that in this way. in sp you dont have buildings too, do you?

[zaript]

The main reason of introducing key buildings is to get rid of one hour camp battles. It isn't perfect solution but it work to some extent.

Currently you have two ways to win a game - you can destroy your opponent or you can hold all buildings for 10 minutes. And there no need to rush anything if you don't want - just move all your forces to the single building you want, capture it and fight all you want. Or fight while capturing. Buildings can only destroy your strategy if it is based on deployment zone camping.

"cuz of this crap im losing all the time cuz skirmish units are just nonsense."
It always puzzles me how can people nor realize that their opponent in the same boat. Try the thing that makes you loose, and you may discover that in fact you just taking a wrong approach.

[-de3p-]

It always puzzles me how can people nor realize that their opponent in the same boat. Try the thing that makes you loose, and you may discover that in fact you just taking a wrong approach.

sure, i know that my opponents have the same "problem", and actually this is what i just hate. both players will try to go for the best building (for example you dont really need the bow dojo...) as fast as possible, and most times they will meet at the same time there, so the battle begins and ends fast. thats why i said u are nearly forced to play rush builds or you get owned when both players meet at their favored building.

for me, it takes out all the strategy factor, you start the battle, click to get to you favor building, opponent does the same, meeting there, fight goes about 2 mins and thats the end...

[HM cally]

sure, i know that my opponents have the same "problem", and actually this is what i just hate. both players will try to go for the best building (for example you dont really need the bow dojo...) as fast as possible, and most times they will meet at the same time there, so the battle begins and ends fast. thats why i said u are nearly forced to play rush builds or you get owned when both players meet at their favored building.

for me, it takes out all the strategy factor, you start the battle, click to get to you favor building, opponent does the same, meeting there, fight goes about 2 mins and thats the end...

and so u admit u are a skirmish camper, cant have initiative of attack even to throw arrow or bullet to ur opponent and so force him to attak u where u would like to defend and so get his flank easier....what a good taktik ^^lol. i have a suggestion for u, its a melee game so take only melee units envelope ur enemy inf with ur army inf protect ur flank with some spear unit ur skill will move well to protect the move of ur cav and destroy fast a big part of ur opponent, after 10 second fight u will get a decisive advantage and u will finish easy a good game, and could have soon an other. if u lose no worry it will be same fast, and so u will play an other game soon aswell...
u love skirmish camping? go play napoleon on ligny or aoste valley map )

[Thorien Kell]

Building idea is actually not that bad. It forces player to take more active approach. But building need not to be predominant factor in your strategy. For example, and more so in S2, often i ignored them completely and proceeded in annihilating my opponent. Basically all you have to do is make sure that you get one building or at least stop your opponent in claiming it and you can proceed from there as you wish. If I have to choose between having buildings and having bloody campers, it's no contest, they are quite numerous even now.

[Ildoge]

countdown is great but dojos are OP

Ca should fix them: ok they are great vs campers and cav spammers but dojo bonus should be very low

No dojos in sp

[zaript]

I think imbalanced dojos are part of the idea - random map imbalance forces players to engage earlier instead of camping. Good for ladder, bad for tournaments.

[TheCrazyCat]

how is it bad for tournaments?

[zaript]

@TheCrazyCat
Ladder is all about statistics on a long time periods, so some losses/victories caused by random dojo imbalance are tolerable.
On the other hand, tournaments have limited amount of games played, so any randomness have much higher impact on final results. And if influence of randomness is too hight - there no reason to compete in game, you can throw the dice or pull the card for example. I exaggerated a bit, but I hope you got my idea.

@-de3p-
Strategy is a way to get to achieve a goal. I understand what you are trying to say, but I do not agree with you, that it is bad. Current system forces players to make decisions fast which is good in my opinion. All maneuvering and trickery is still here, but time frame is limited. This makes games more dynamic, knowledge factor and preparations more important, skill cap higher.
Now, I think you should make a step out of the box and try to play like there no important dojos at all. Zone out your opponent from one of the dojos and play it as you like. You may found that you are overestimating importance of the dojos, ot you may find out that problem lies not in a dojo rushing but in your current game approach.
Try to watch some YT videos from tournaments or get some replays and you will see that there a lot of maneuvering involved even when people "rush" dojos.

[TheCrazyCat]

just cuz someone gets the sword dojo and has alot of melee infantry doesnt necessarily mean WIN for his side while you get a farm on yours. I mean my opponent had the sword and morale dojo and I had the farm and I still won http://www.2shared.com/fadmin/329398...er.replay.html if you just neutralize the dojos... it doesnt mean crap.

[zaript]

Not necessarily, no. That is why it is tolerable for ladder.
But when you say "it doesnt mean crap", I will not agree with you. When one of two experienced players, who both have proved their strength before, get even slight advantage it can decide outcome of important game. And it is bad if that advantage is random.

BTW I can't remember your name, what tournaments did you won or participated?

[TheCrazyCat]

Not necessarily, no. That is why it is tolerable for ladder.
But when you say "it doesnt mean crap", I will not agree with you. When one of two experienced players, who both have proved their strength before, get even slight advantage it can decide outcome of important game. And it is bad if that advantage is random.

BTW I can't remember your name, what tournaments did you won?

for some maps you maybe right, but seeing how most players just suck, it doesn't mean much in S2 since they make the game into football, having two lines just smash into each other.. not much movement.

hm, dont need to be in any tournaments to show that I know what i am talking about. the names Braver/Phantom Pleinair~

[zaript]

Well, if you not experiencing tournament play regularly, why would you speak about it? Why would you even care about it?
And why would I care about your games with most of players who suck? How does it relate to tournament play that you asked me about?

As a participant, hoster and caster of couple of small tournament I feel that random dojo placement(if they are not placed in one line through the middle of the map) affect outcome of the game in final rounds, when majority of weaker player already out. There is no way to prove this to be completely right or completely wrong, since matter itself too vague, but when it comes to tournaments, I have some ground to speak.

[TheCrazyCat]

cuz i must watch my friends fight to the death and claim victor. why else would I be in the chat lobby when those Flash tourneys begin? as a keen observer if two competent players were vsing each other and the 3rd round map that was chosen for them had K-buildings that were not in the middle then you can bet that the other player would definitely neutralize the K-Building that gives his opponent a definite advantage.

[zaript]

So, he would be forced to become an ataker if that building closer to opponent? And his opponent would have time to position his forces as he wants?

[TheCrazyCat]

your point is? someone has to attack eventually otherwise you would just watch two guys just sit infront of each other doing nothing. Just depends on who can plan their attack sooner otherwise wheres the merit in taking the initiative?

[BeardyMcJohnFace]

your point is? someone has to attack eventually otherwise you would just watch two guys just sit infront of each other doing nothing. Just depends on who can plan their attack sooner otherwise wheres the merit in taking the initiative?

I think he's just trying to say that on some maps (where the dojos aren't all in the middle) by chance one player could immediately be at a disadvantage and that isn't ideal for a tournament. I think it's a valid concern but it's not a huge game-changer. I'd only be worried about it in a tie-breaker and if you agree to an uneven map and fate hands you a farmhouse and the enemy melee rush army a shrine and sword dojo then it's your own damn fault.

[TheCrazyCat]

I think he's just trying to say that on some maps (where the dojos aren't all in the middle) by chance one player could immediately be at a disadvantage and that isn't ideal for a tournament. I think it's a valid concern but it's not a huge game-changer. I'd only be worried about it in a tie-breaker and if you agree to an uneven map and fate hands you a farmhouse and the enemy melee rush army a shrine and sword dojo then it's your own damn fault.

hes saying its UNfair in tourney games but its alright in MM. But ya hes making it sound like its impossible to beat someone in that scenario.

[zaript]

And who have advantage - the one who defends or the one who attack without even letting his troops rest a bit?

[TheCrazyCat]

depends on the player's in question.