Constractable defenses prior to battle

[Ichon]

From some ancient sources there is mention of the use by Gauls, Germans, and Huns drawing up carts as temporary defenses- by Roman, Greek, and Carthaginian of ditches, sharpened stakes, cavalry traps, etc.

Battles like Alesia would not even be possible without some form of constructable defenses.

If there were a skill path for generals to build some defenses before a battle if stopping with 25% movement left? Or perhaps a unit like engineers/sappers who specialized in both defense and offense constructions?

Would this give human player too many advantages or if AI used it regularly would field battles come to remind people of sieges even if such defenses could only be constructed along 1/4 of the line?

At the very least crow's feet or caltrops, tetrahedron, or tribolos, or as the Romans referred to it- tribulus. Sometimes lacking supplies other forms of it were made on the spot such as the 'goads' referred to at Alesia which were important in helping stop the Gallic cavalry charges on that first attack.

Short article with some prevalent examples of use of such devices in ancient battles-

http://www.historynet.com/weaponry-the-caltrop.htm

[Alkaline Earth]

in RTW you could build a fort for 500 denarii

the idea could be expanded like you say

[bangell99]

Constructing forts at the end of each turn for your armies should be a cheap and viable option, and I'd love to see far more constructable defenses in battles.

[RTKHamilcar]

yeh that should stick with such things as pre-defenses to an extent and only for some units.

[Krieglord]

Sooo....?

[Destraex]

Sooo....?

Yep in a demo battle with scripts that means its prolly not in the campaign.

[Destraex]

I think legionary camps constructed at the end of the day should cost you movement points NOT money.
This way if you choose to be careless and not take the negative movement hit to build a camp, you can pay for
it just like some legions did by being ambushed, surprised without your armour on and having less defence.

In bad terrain a camp should also not be an option... thus terrain is important.

[Ichon]

I think legionary camps constructed at the end of the day should cost you movement points NOT money.
This way if you choose to be careless and not take the negative movement hit to build a camp, you can pay for
it just like some legions did by being ambushed, surprised without your armour on and having less defence.

In bad terrain a camp should also not be an option... thus terrain is important.

Yes I agree time more than money is important for wooden defenses as well as terrain climate. Ideally different terrains temporary defenses would look a bit different.

Default could be 25% less movement modified by average experience of an army- higher experience can prepare camp in less time allowing a longer march. It would also be nice to be able to have option for a forced march but units arrive very tired and with low morale during that and the following turn until getting new movement points.

[akkakk]

I would like to have many more constructable things as well.

also, the ability to build forts that are permanent, which can also be upgraded and which can also become small cities (as in real life).

and, maybe, the ability to even found cities (like Deva in in same location as modern Chester, England, which was one of the largest settlements in northern Europe)?

[zg0301zg]

From some ancient sources there is mention of the use by Gauls, Germans, and Huns drawing up carts as temporary defenses- by Roman, Greek, and Carthaginian of ditches, sharpened stakes, cavalry traps, etc.

Battles like Alesia would not even be possible without some form of constructable defenses.

If there were a skill path for generals to build some defenses before a battle if stopping with 25% movement left? Or perhaps a unit like engineers/sappers who specialized in both defense and offense constructions?

Would this give human player too many advantages or if AI used it regularly would field battles come to remind people of sieges even if such defenses could only be constructed along 1/4 of the line?

At the very least crow's feet or caltrops, tetrahedron, or tribolos, or as the Romans referred to it- tribulus. Sometimes lacking supplies other forms of it were made on the spot such as the 'goads' referred to at Alesia which were important in helping stop the Gallic cavalry charges on that first attack.

Short article with some prevalent examples of use of such devices in ancient battles-

http://www.historynet.com/weaponry-the-caltrop.htm

it wouldn`t be a bad idea if you could place certain obstacles alon the narrow city road , some better defence on the towers and such depending on the city size, plus any additional improvements depending of the importance of the city of course by the price you would invest....this way you would discourage any invaders and also be more caerful not to loose the city.

[General George S. Patton]

I think that legionary forts should be automatically constructed at the end of each turn, not costing building points or money, it was just something that they did all the time.

[RagingCroppy]

I think that legionary forts should be automatically constructed at the end of each turn, not costing building points or money, it was just something that they did all the time.

Then every time the Roman player is attacked in the field it would be a siege battle, no thank you.

[zg0301zg]

Then every time the Roman player is attacked in the field it would be a siege battle, no thank you.

well if we are talking about being realistic then we have to say Roman army wasnt from the pack of thiefs and thugs, so I doubt if they camp they would allow to be attacked during night or at sleep, perhaps not a siege battle all the time, if they are with general depending of the rank or if they are smaller size army....

[Lord Baal]

Only if a night battle perhaps?

[Asgaroth]

? Or perhaps a unit like engineers/sappers who specialized in both defense and offense constructions?

Nice idea. A special units such as engineers could do that or there are two more possible ways :

1)Having a agent of an engineer in an army
2)If generals had that kind of ability - " engineer - army can build fortifications before a battle" like they had the night fighting ability in RTW : BI.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Typical Roman Armies had engineers within the legion. It wasnt a skill only a General had. But CA will prob make the defences option available with a general unit.

[SODK]

Whats the problem with having the same system as in Empire, Napoleon and Shogun where a stationary army can deploy defences when attacked if it's been stationary for one complete turn?

[Julio-Claudian]

Whats the problem with having the same system as in Empire, Napoleon and Shogun where a stationary army can deploy defences when attacked if it's been stationary for one complete turn?

That seems like the best way to do it.

[Lacedaemon]

I would like to see things like defensive ditches in front of settlements and upturned carts and such blocking smaller roads with debris. Nor to say this wouldn't be easily overrun, but it would provide defenders with some minute advantages that can help stall enemies.
On the subject, I would also like to see buildings when they ignite on fire and collapse, actually kill and hurt units around them. That is one thing about RTW1 that bugged me a ton. There would be a huge building fire and troops would be casually walking through the flames unhurt. SO in my opinion, defensive battle preparations should definitely be included.

[Red Hue]

There were temporary forts in RTW. I don’t remember them costing anything to build but it may have been that you needed to remain stationary for one turn. They also disappeared after the last unit left.

I would rather stay away from engineer units to build forts. Anyone could erect quick defenses around a camp. An engineer agent is a different possibility. Needed if you wanted to erect bridges or build ships perhaps. Yes, ships were built on campaign. Many armies built siege works and anyone could through together a ram or ladders.