Ultrathin laptop suggestions?

[Mythos]

So, I am looking to replace my HP laptop, which is being a PITA, and I was thinking about an ultrathin. My demands are fairly low, mostly surfing online, movies, paradox games, mou and blade, the odd FPS on low settings etc. Price is not an issue at this point as I want to see all the options before deciding for one. Any suggestion comrades?

[karamazovmm]

Right now it really depends on your definition of ultrathin, ultrabook?

the Retina MacBook Pro (RMBP) is the BEST ultrathin, no questions asked. There is simply no comparison, the thinness is ultrabook thin, the weight is low for a 15, and the power is the same as the asus G75, I would go for the base model and thats it.

There is also this annoyingly good thread:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/what...ompendium.html

if you want to go for a 15'' there is a the S15 from sony and the HP envy 6t, 6z, and the 15

[DisgruntledGoat]

Right now it really depends on your definition of ultrathin, ultrabook?

the Retina MacBook Pro (RMBP) is the BEST ultrathin, no questions asked. There is simply no comparison, the thinness is ultrabook thin, the weight is low for a 15, and the power is the same as the asus G75, I would go for the base model and thats it.

There is also this annoyingly good thread:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/what...ompendium.html

if you want to go for a 15'' there is a the S15 from sony and the HP envy 6t, 6z, and the 15

You RMBP fanboyish-ness really puts me off. The same power as an ASUS G75? Seriously? It has a slightly overclocked GTX650M in it. The GPU can't handle the native resolution of the retina display on any intensive setting. The default 8GB of ram is not up-gradable unless you spend over $250 to upgrade to 12GB. The SSD is not up-gradable (unless you pay through the nose when you order) and neither is the battery. All this for a laptop that starts at $2200. The thing is so outrageously priced anyone that needs an ultrabook should just stay the heck away from a RMBP. Anyone who wants to game should stay away from the RMBP. The only people that should buy a RMBP are apple fanboys and SERIOUS professional artists.

Then you go and suggest the HP Envy line and a Sony S15? There are far better ultrabooks out there that would perform just as good as the RBMP (minus the ridiculous screen resolution).

Asus Zenbook, Samsung Series 9, and the HP Folio are the top choices and all cheaper than macbooks. A MB Air or RMBP are imo some of the worst suggestions one can give a person when they are buying laptops.

[karamazovmm]

the 640m LE (some models)/640m/650m/660m are the same gpu, the difference lies in clocks and or the type of vRAM used.

The 650m in the RMBP is clocked higher than a 660m. Ocing both net the same wall at 3k+ 3dmark11, standard clocks its faster.

You might not be aware but the professional artists depends on who you are talking to, for example if one needs a higher gamut display one goes for the dream color 2 in the hp 8560w or in the 8570w. If one needs a beefier card for GPGPU one goes for a AMD gpu. Regarding software, a friend of mine owns a special effects/media company, she makes several good points regarding software, FCP X is problematic, the adobe package in windows is now just as good, and MASSIVE and some others only run in windows.

The RMBP is a good machine.

In terms of weight it has only one competitor, the sony S15.

In terms of thickness it has no competitor.

In terms of res there is no competitor.

In terms of display quality there are few monitors that are as good or better, currently there is the dream color 2 (undoubtedly better, it costs 1k for that only though, and you wont be seeing a better panel outside of NEC, EIZO or that high end LG display that a lot of people use in their 2560*1440 27'' displays), the AUO 95% gamut display current found in Clevo/Sager machines (upgrade that costs 100+) and in the thinkpad w530 and this is a TN panel, thats it.

While you do think that 16gb of ram for 200 bucks is a terrible price, it isnt. The price of DDR3 sodimm modules is around 100, apple uses DDR3L. I find it incredible that apple didnt overcharge much, not hey let's praise that, but hey interesting.

16gb of RAM is the usual maximum that you can upgrade a laptop, 32gb is the current max for workstation and select gaming machines. Due specially to them having only 2 ram slots.

OWC already made a MBA SSD drive for the 2012 model, and for the 2010/2011. It should be soon when they deliver for the RMBP, strange that apple didnt use the same connector, or they did and somebody havent tested it yet. The pin out is very similar from the photos I saw.

Thus in terms of overall package its a good pc. I didnt say that the price is actually right, but for apple standards (and those are high), its more economical to get that instead of the MBP.

So yes, I like the RMBP. Its a portable machine that fill my needs, it might fill the needs of another millions of users.

Your distinction is pretty much flawed.

In terms of performance, per weight, the RMBP is the best one out there. The envy 15 is heavy, though a good machine. The ux32sv is another good machine, I do hope that they have fixed the keyboard, trackpad, wifi issues that they had with the ux31, the problem here is that you are comparing the RMBP to the ux31/32, there is simply no comparison.

Basically in my post I pointed out that for a ultrathin (i.e. less than 1.2''), he should take a look at the RMBP, envy 15, S15, envy 6t, envy 6z (arranged in order of price). And I pointed a thread a made in another forum, that I would recommend you reading it before, trashing out again. The only ultrabook that I recommended was... the UX 32sv, which is in the link that I posted, in the thread that I created in another forum.

[DisgruntledGoat]

While the 650M in the RMBP only has 1GB GDDR5 as oppose to the GTX660M's 2GB of GDDR5 both with the same memory clock speed. Advantage 660M, also what you are failing to tell people is that the 650M in the RMBP is 900MHz base and 900MHz Boost for clock speeds. While the 660M is 835MHz base and 950MHz Boost. While it looks great on paper the 660M while gaming will be up around that 950MHz while the 650M is stuck at 900MHz and should be performing better than the upgraded 650M in the RMBP. And anyone that CARES about that sort of thing will also know that you can push the 660M to above 1GHz anyways. Given the high resolution of the Retina display the 650M in the RBMP would not perform as well as a 660M at the same resolution. So if you have to reduce the screen resolution of the Retina to play games... whats the point of hi-res display then? I'm not saying the 660M is a super star its a good upper mid-level mobile gfx card. However the G75 from Asus at 1920x1080 is going to out perform the RMBP at the same resolution.

[karamazovmm]

no it wont. the clocks on the RMBP 650m aint static as well. The 2g of vram wont make that much of difference given that both use a 128bit bandwidth, aside that people usually play at 1680*1050, since there is no blur at all in that res.

As I said, both can be OCed quite well, and both net similar results when OCed.

If you want to trash the gaming capabilities of either notebooks, its simple, just put a 680m, people are reaching 8900 in the GPU score, 8300+ on the overall score, and that is using a 3610qm. The 7970m can reach 7900+ of overall score.

[DisgruntledGoat]

The 650M in the RBMP is STATIC when referring to the Nvidia Boost feature:



I.E. The boost feature will not bring up the clock speed of the RMBP 650M while the Boost feature on a 660M will clock the 660M at 950MHz during peak performance. These are STOCK settings. You have stated several times that the 900MHz of the 650M in the RBMP makes it superier to the 660M in other laptops. This is not 100% true and ignores several facts including real world applications. During gaming the 660M will be clocked by the Nvidia Boost at around 950MHz while the 650M in the RMBP is going to stay locked in at 900MHz.

[karamazovmm]

it aint locked. I have been talking with people that have it. Not locked at all. Go talk to speedy gonzales at notebookreview, or ASDS.

The point here is how apple managed to do that, + a 95whr battery + you can stack 2+ RMBP in a g55. And how asus managed to put so much underpowered components in such a chassis, and not enabling you to buy another gpu to put in place.

[DisgruntledGoat]

Now your trying to get off your original message of "the power is the same as the asus G75" which at its root you claimed was because "the 650M in the [RMBP] out performs a 660M." As I said, a very misleading statement you are making based solely on published BASE clock speeds. At BEST you can say they will perform similarly and imo the edge still goes to the G75.

Stock, out of the box, no user tweaking or OCing the RMBP's 650M is capped at 900MHz and does not utilize the Nvidia Boost Algorithm. The STOCK 660M in a G75 while clocked at 853MHz utilizes Nvida's Boost Algorithm to increase the clock speed up to 950MHz depending of performance requirements and available power. If the card is set at 900MHz boost STOCK as my above screen shot shows then the card will not be looking to overclock itself. That is what I meant by locked.

nd how asus managed to put so much underpowered components in such a chassis, and not enabling you to buy another gpu to put in place.

And yet apple has managed to solder everything in place making it impossible to replace the battery yourself, upgrade the ram or SSD at a later date. And to top it off there is no optical drive AT ALL. All that so we you shave off 80mm and 500g? What an awesome trade off. /sarcasm.

[apple]

Now your trying to get off your original message of "the power is the same as the asus G75" which at its root you claimed was because "the 650M in the [RMBP] out performs a 660M." As I said, a very misleading statement you are making based solely on published BASE clock speeds. At BEST you can say they will perform similarly and imo the edge still goes to the G75.

Stock, out of the box, no user tweaking or OCing the RMBP's 650M is capped at 900MHz and does not utilize the Nvidia Boost Algorithm. The STOCK 660M in a G75 while clocked at 853MHz utilizes Nvida's Boost Algorithm to increase the clock speed up to 950MHz depending of performance requirements and available power. If the card is set at 900MHz boost STOCK as my above screen shot shows then the card will not be looking to overclock itself. That is what I meant by locked.



And yet apple has managed to solder everything in place making it impossible to replace the battery yourself, upgrade the ram or SSD at a later date. And to top it off there is no optical drive AT ALL. All that so we you shave off 80mm and 500g? What an awesome trade off. /sarcasm.

Who in the world uses a cd drive anyway? If you happened to need it just install from another computer true shared cd drive feature of OS X or buy the external one.

Saying that the resolution drags performance down is also not true as most users don't use their computers for gaming 24/7. Surfing the web, managing photos and other multimedia is greatly enhanced at that resolution.
Just reading text on any website is something that is way way better.

The only bad thing about the RMBP is the high costs. It is the first of it's kind and thus will drop in price just like the old Macbook Air did. This computer is targeted for those who got money or need the resolution for their multimedia work. It's not a gaming machine and Apple doesn't advertise it as that.

[karamazovmm]

its more than 1kg of difference its actually 1.7kg higher, and just look at the dimensions: 16.3" x 12.6" x 0.9"-2.0" (W x D x H) and the RMBP: 14.13 inches x 9.73 inches x 0.71 inch (W x D x H). That is for the g55vw, I wouldnt dare post the g75

I dont care for a DVD or blu ray drive at all, dont use it, its a waste of space. The only thing that would worry me is the space issue, given that OWC is already working on that, I dont really care, I have been living with just 120gb SSD in my pc for sometime, I do miss the space sometimes, specially when using several VMs, music, movies and other stuff are on the NAS, where they should be, easy access to my sister and me.

No, I didnt deviate the main thing that I claimed, which is both perform the same when overclocked, which both can achieve 1200mhz+ at core, at stock the RMBP will perform a bit better, I dont know why you cling to that gpuz screenshot, as I said, while I do have contact with people that game and overclock their systems, you have that screenshot, I told you their names and where to find, pm the guys. But the contrast in terms of size and other stuff is your claim against me that the RMBP is the worst machine, which plainly if you value portability, isnt.

What you imo or not imo, is irrelevant given that the clocks dont lie, the cpu options on the G75 is higher, since you can choose the 3920xm, however I dont recall that you can overclock the 3720qm/3820qm/3920xm, the first 2 because there is no intel XTU (AFAIK) and the latter because I dont recall having bios enabled options.

You can though OC both machines using throttlestop, but I do think that asus has locked some thing, while apple is entirely open for you to tweak it. You will need the higher end system for that, since the 3610qm/3615qm are limited in that regard.

btw the price to swap the battery is 200, which basically is the same of any 90whr+ battery that I know, specially lenovo, and that price includes a new keyboard tray/ keyboard/ touchpad/ service.

Now dont get me wrong, I dont really care for anorexic thin, I do care about weight, the RMBP is the only machine that I would get outside the realm of 13''.

I wonder if clevo managed to cram the GDDR5 version of the 650m in their 11'' notebook, if we would be arguing about that instead of the RMBP and the asus G series.

One thing that you may have missed, and I tried to point out twice, is that the asus G series after the G73 with the 5870m, they stopped being high end, actually that is the whole problem, even samsung which is the late entry here, packs a 675m, which is a 485m/580m rebadged, and it will sport the 7970m soon. So a machine that can achieve 3k in 3d mark11, is basically mainstream, while others achieve more than 2x that number, while sporting similarly large chassis and robust cooling.

[Colossus]

Who in the world uses a cd drive anyway?

Anyone who wants to rip cds, watch dvds or play games (and doesn't know what a disc image is) perhaps?

[apple]

You buy games from steam. You stream film/tv series. I haven't used my cd drive for months.

[karamazovmm]

Its been quite a while since I dont buy CDs, I still only buy LPs, and digital music (my collection is now around 300gb).

Movies I stream or buy, specially after itunes store and netflix came to brazil. And here we have the problem of quality, blu ray is definitely an improvement if you compare to streamed/downloaded/dvds.

Games I only buy their digital versions, for one its a pain to find a box, for two its not ecological.

But yes, the ODD has its uses, I dont use it. Its going to die a slow painful death, but it will die.